public vs. private education

[thehurricanekid]

So I've been kinda pondering this thing on and off for quite a few months now actually. It started with just an offhand comment made by my mom's boyfriend when I was visiting during one of my college breaks. He mentioned how his brother was taking his children out of private school. He then went on to talk about how this was a good idea because the children would learn how to deal with and be tolerant of more kinds of people, i.e. not just the privileged minority who tend to dominate private education. I didn't ask him to expand on the statement because I didn't really pay it much mind at the time, but the sentiment sort of took on more significance for me as I rolled it around in my mind a bit more. That became moreso the case when I remembered a little while later that my girlfriend had made a similar assertion in the more distant past. She attended public school her entire life (though she admits that her mother wanted to send her to private school but could not afford it), and she in fact currently has a job teaching at her old high school.

My experience with education, on the other hand, has predominantly in the private realm. I only attended public school during my elementary years and only because my parents could not afford to send me to a private school at the time. But once they had their finances straightened out, they were very adamant about putting me into a private school from junior high onward. And while they've never told me this specifically, I've gotten the impression over the years that my parents only waited so long to get their divorce because they didn't want legal proceedings to drain the money that had been set aside for my private school tuition. My whole point is that they obviously believed very strongly that private education was instrumental in influencing my ability to succeed as an adult, and they put forth a lot of effort to give me that opportunity. For them, even if it was true that the insulated environment of private school would make me less tolerant of others, the quality of my education and the overall knowledge I'm supposed attain from a private setting would offset that.

When it comes to me, though, I'm kind of torn between these two viewpoints. First off, I do kind of get the feeling that I am less tolerant of people who are less fortunate or privileged than I am. I'm not afraid to admit that I often do look upon people who are poor or otherwise do not "have their lives together" with a certain amount of disdain. My primary instinct in most instances is to assume that people are in those circumstances because of their own poor choices. And while I do still believe that everyone needs to take complete responsibility for their own life and the outcomes of their actions, as I've grown up, I've come to learn that life consists of the actions and reactions of so many other people. Your will is so infinitesimally small when compared to the will of the collective human population that it is very hard to influence the world in any meaningful way. So maybe I've softened on my original stance as the years have gone by, but I still concede that lack of tolerance is still something of a weakness of mine.

However, I also should note that the quality of the education I got from private school definitely assisted me greatly. I used to compare what I was learning with the curriculum of my friends who attended public school, and many times, I was appalled at how lacking their knowledge was on many things. When I got out of high school, I honestly felt like I had enough knowledge to be prepared for college courses (not to brag, but I did graduate with my first degree with a GPA over 3.9). I don't think this would have been the case had I attended public school. And it isn't just the strenuousness of the curriculum that helped me. My teachers taught me things like how to cite scholarly sources in MLA format and other skills that they really don't teach even in 101 courses in college, skills that pretty much all professors will assume that you have already.

Also, the schools I attended definitely knew that they were catering to students with ambitions which included college and white collar, highly professional occupations, so they offered many mentoring and guidance resources intended to help steer us in that direction.

So I want to get your views on this matter, especially since I know a large part of this site's population is still in high school. If you're in public school now, do you feel that you lack the quality education that will give you the knowledge necessary to really get ahead in college and eventually in the professional realm? If you're in private school, do you feel like you've been insulated too much from the more grim reality of the world and that the experience has made you less tolerant of different people?

[Geist X]

Your mom's boyfriend's statement seems a bit specious to me. Private Schools tend to have very high percentages of international students attending them, compared to public schools which have a mostly domestic student population. Interacting with people who come from entirely different cultures is a great experience in diversity. Furthermore...public schools aren't exactly free of class based discrimination. I'd argue that class discrimination is a lot more pronounced in public schools than it is in private schools. Kids getting singled out for not having brand name clothes...this occurs far more often at public schools than it does private schools.

Obviously, private schools have far more resources and support services available to their students than public schools. This allows a much stronger academic experience. However private schools are limited by how gifted the individual students are. That is to say, it takes a capable student to take full advantage of the educational experience of a private school. Going to a prep school doesn't suddenly turn a person into a genius. Many prep schools stand out from public schools because they have strong programs for students with learning disabilities.

Ultimately...the decisive difference between private and public schools isn't actually the resources available. It's how active the parents choose to be in their child's education. When parents are paying $40K+ a year for their kids to go to school, they are invested in what's going on with their kid. They want to know every grade, know who the teachers are, and basically know what the hell they're spending all that money on. They want to be involved when they can. Private schools encourage parent participation far more than public schools, and have more community events.

The more parents are involved in their kid's education, the more successful the child is. There is a limitation to how responsible a teacher or school is for a students education. Parents are absolutely instrumental. This is the truth of the matter whether the school is public or private. Parents who take responsibility for their child's education will always have academically successful children.

Those who have an elitist attitude towards people less privileged than they are, have them because of their own personalities, not simply because they attended a private school. It can be argued that private schools encourage elitism, but accepting those elitist values is an individual choice.

You're probably not being intentionally condescending but your post comes off like...

"Dear muggles. Do you regret being muggles? Does your mudblood pain you? My fellow Wizards and Witches...have you ever longed for the muggle world?"

[thehurricanekid]

You make many good points. Yes, it's true that private schools can be more culturally diverse (though this was not the case in one of my schools, which was mostly white), but most are fairly homogenous in terms of economic class. Most students there come from fairly privileged families, i.e. those who can afford to drop the $40K+ a year you mentioned. I guess I didn't state this explicitly, but my question more specifically involved if public school experience can make you more tolerant of people based on their economic standing. Plus, just because a school consists mostly of domestic students doesn't mean diversity doesn't exist in that particular community. At the school where my girlfriend works, the population of white kids is actually less than 50%, and there are many more Asians (mostly Koreans), Hispanics and African Americans.

And you're right that it's ultimately the parents' responsibility to decide how their children will mature into productive adults. But certainly there are parents who do care about their kids, only they can't afford to provide all the necessary resources. Like I said, that was the case with my parents when I was very young.

I'm not sure where you're getting the condescending vibe, though, because I certainly never argued that any one experience is better than the other. I acknowledged that my own experience provided me with benefits but also exacerbated some of my own weaknesses as well.

[Matt Cruea]

Hi I'm (almost) a teacher in the United States public education system. Lemme drop some real talk on you.

Why do we force kids to go to school? Despite current governmental efforts to prove the contrary, it's not just to pass standardized tests so that we can rake in more money. Kids are sent to school, and then coerced into taking out loans in order to attend more school, in order to prepare themselves for a mythical realm we've come to call "the real world." The real world is full of occupations, spouses, and children and is the eventual end-goal that society has laid out for just about everyone. The real world is full of things school is supposed to prepare you for: money management, mathematics, science, literature. Everything that we as kids would ask our teacher "um, when would ever use this as an adult" can and more than likely will be used by an adult somewhere. The real world is full of all these things that we learn about in school, but really:

The real world is full of assholes.

This is where I begin to see the divide of public and private institutions. Obviously there's no answer to which is better outright, as there's been, to my knowledge, no true empirical evidence stating one way or the other. That said, I can offer anecdotal evidence like crazy. I went to public school. A decent amount of my current social circle attended private school. I can see the differences in how these people act in their daily lives. A few things I've noticed:

On the whole, private school students seem more dependent on their parents. Perhaps if a parent has the money to afford private school they can afford to support their child longer. Meanwhile, most of the public school students I know were out of the house by age 20 if not earlier. I do not live with my parents. Many of my friends do. My parents, however, could also not afford to support me (and also I'm a grown-ass man and like girls so living with my parents would suck). This isn't to say that private school students are inferior or manchildren or whatever, but I would certainly say it implies that it fosters a continuing adult dependency on the parents that is socially unhealthy.

Private school students also seem more sheltered. Admittedly most private school students I know went to religious schools, however the vast majority of private schools in the United States ARE religious institutions. Either way, you're creating a small community that is cut away from the rest of the world. This community stifles social interaction: you're often in the same class with the same people for years. This is precisely how public school, in my opinion, is superior: it trains you to interact with people who are different than you. In a private school setting, you will not be introduced against your will to people who are different or share different thoughts, and that is mentally and socially unhealthy.

On the topic of the education offered, I'd put it as a wash. Public schools cannot afford to pay the high salaries that private schools can, and as such private schools will rarely shell out for non-tenured educators or educators without sufficient prior training (like, for instance, a masters). This is good and bad. It's good because it ensures experienced educators for these students, but it's bad because when you're doing something for the money it subtracts the passion. Trust me when I say that teachers are not doing it for the money in the public sector. I plan to pay my student loans back for the next decade, and perhaps longer if I go back for my doctorate. You can be sure that teachers in the public sector want to be there because they love to teach, for the most part.

In my opinion public school simply offers better training for life and I'll most certainly be sending my own children to public school, even if I end up working at a private school.

That said: both are about a trillion times better than homeschooling. Parental interaction is necessary in a child's education, but there's no need to be a helicopter mom.

[thehurricanekid]

Whoa I had no idea people had been active in the thread for all this time. I doubt Matt's still reading this one, but I wanted to address one of the points he made.

On the topic of the education offered, I'd put it as a wash. Public schools cannot afford to pay the high salaries that private schools can, and as such private schools will rarely shell out for non-tenured educators or educators without sufficient prior training (like, for instance, a masters). This is good and bad. It's good because it ensures experienced educators for these students, but it's bad because when you're doing something for the money it subtracts the passion. Trust me when I say that teachers are not doing it for the money in the public sector. I plan to pay my student loans back for the next decade, and perhaps longer if I go back for my doctorate. You can be sure that teachers in the public sector want to be there because they love to teach, for the most part.

I think it's too simplistic of a view to say that just because someone's making a lot of money, they can't possibly be passionate about the job. Kobe Bryant makes something like $30 million a year playing basketball, yet nobody will ever question his desire to play basketball and to be great at it. Just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean you're just in it for the money. And money is not the only reason teachers would choose to be in a private setting. Many of the teachers in the Catholic school where I attended grades 8-11 said they were making less than teachers from public schools, but they wanted to be in the private education system because the government didn't have as much control over the curriculum, so instructors could do more of what they wanted in the classroom. And they also cited how the private education system has fewer behavioral problems because the kids come from more favorable social situations and also because the school has greater power to discipline troublemakers.

And I do think you're looking at the rest of your colleagues in the public sector with rose-colored glasses. Not everyone working there is a selfless saint. Have you ever watched the film "Waiting For Superman"? One of the big problems highlighted there was how the aggressive negotiation tactics of most state teachers unions made it practically impossible to fire or otherwise discipline bad teachers in the public school systems. As a result, teachers who are unqualified or just disengaged still get to linger around, and that is really what damages the quality of education the kids will receive.

[Flapping Wings]

I've been all over, myself. State schools, good private schools, not so good private schools, the works. This is all based on what I saw. I don't believe that private school is, of necessity, some kind of shelter which leaves students unprepared for the realities of planet earth. That doesn't fit with what I know. At my school (the best one I went to), there were things which people tend to believe either don't exist or exist less at private school, and that's just some of the teachers. However, the education was excellent. It was a very competitive environment; it gave you drive and ambition. If you could and you didn't, they didn't let it slide.

I think that if you go to private school simply because your parents can afford it, you're already sheltered to some extent. You probably come from quite a comfortable family. I don't have a problem with that. I don't think those people are necessarily unable to grasp the realities of the world, or that private school does anything to impede someone's development. That's based on what I saw. Other private schools might be different, but that one isn't a school which I would regard as being detrimental to a child's development with regards to understanding the world as it is.

I do think that some private schools give a better education than state schools. That was certainly true for me. It had a broader curriculum. Whether that translates into better chances further down the road, I think depends on what kind of chances you want. Personally, I would consider private school itself a break, particularly for those who get scholarships. I also think there are certain good and non-academic things which are emphasized more at private school. All of this having been said, I don't believe that state schools are necessarily assembly lines, which I think a few people who've been to private school think they are. I have been to private schools which weren't as good. I can believe that there are state schools which are better than lower quality private schools. On the basis that, from what I've seen, certain private schools offer a better education and other benefits with no significant drawbacks, I would lean towards private schools of that kind.

[EvraVon53]

I actually wrote a paper about this for a college essay.

I went to private Christian schools until the seventh grade and had a VERY sheltered existence. Life was awful, and there was no reasoning allowed. Anywhere. I strongly discourage going to private Christian schools (not regular private schools). Right now, I'm attending a public school in the Nation Consortium of Specialised Secondary Schools for Mathematics, Science, and Technology (NCSSSMST), as a high-school senior and it's the greatest place I've ever lived in/ attended school. Enrolling in this school resulted in an explosion of knowledge. People that graduated from that private school ended up in never-before-heard-of schools such as SCLSU or NSULA. People that graduated from my current school end up in schools such as Yale, and Carnegie-Mellon. I myself, so far, have been accepted into Baylor Univ., and LSU.

Now I'm only talking about my personal experiences with schools. I'm not saying private schools are bad - only private Christian schools. Many states have schools in the NCSSSMST (My state has two). If you're willing to work, and you go to one of these schools. You're going to kick life's butt!

[AmyAnn]

Yeah, the private school system is pretty sucky in the UK. Harsh as hell from what I know.

Myself, I was in public Catholic school right up until I was 16 and in a way I am kinda grateful. I went through hell through my entire school life. I was severely bullied by both students and teachers because I was timid around the other children but I was fine with adults and they ended up putting me into speech competitions and the debate groups because I got really into them. From what I've seen of the private school kids around my area is that they don't even look at you. They notice your school tie and immediately turn their noses to the point you wanna just slap them and tell them to get a grip. They're always picked up by their parents and they cried if they so much as got a single B in Latin [wtf is Latin, I never took that. Stupid languages].
I kinda agree in the idea that public school toughens you and throws you into the real world if I'm comparing myself to these kids. It was because of a kid in my class that I took my first punch to someone's face, stood up for others and myself. I learned how to take care of myself and ignore the harsh words of others. I toughened up and I would see these private kids become worried over silly little things that are part of every day life. I'm not privileged, never have been, and I went through so much but it taught me what the real world is like. It's hard, it's rough and there's always gonna be at least one person who wants to make you miserable in one way or another. My parents actually used to use public school as a threat if I didn't behave as a child.

I still got a good education, at the end of the day, but I learned through my experiences. I think it's silly to say that those in private education get better chances in life because you can go to a private school and still end up on benefits as much as anyone else. Yes, it's a nice privilege to have but you gotta work just as hard as the kids in public school if you wanna make something of yourself. Just because it's private school doesn't mean you're automatically the most intelligent person there is. I was actually told by someone within the job seekers area here that grades are rarely taken into consideration when applying for work...it's your experience and having been in public school I had to fend for myself and had a number of part time jobs therefore upping my experience greatly. Those in private education don't have that because, typically, mummy and daddy pay for them and they spend all day studying [apparantly]. I got talking to a girl a while back who went to a wonderful school in Glasgow that cost alot of money but was now looking for work and she was struggling really badly whilst I was getting interviews left, right and centre and it was down to her lack of experience. She didn't even know how to work the machines in the place, the poor soul.

As Matt said, I'd send my kids to public school any day. I'd hate to keep them sheltered because it would only cause them to panic later in life once they had to jump into the reality of life.