Abortion.

[Vicious]

If you get raped and impregnated then you should be able to get an abortion.

If you are married and accidentally got pregnant you should be able to choose whether or not you want to birth the baby.

If you are in a steady relationship and accidentally got pregnant then you should be able to get an abortion.

[Bivinz]

Totally am I not a woman.

So as I man I truly have no real right to say anything.

I've heard all about everything and the consiquences, but will I ever truly understand? Nope.

I think any male on here spilling their views that doesn't have any personal connection with someone that has had an abortion should not even voice their opinion cause I don't think it's worth anything on the subject.

Like my own.

Note: not a shot at any male who has replied to this thread.

[Vicious]

...

Bivinz I love you. *hugs*

You are one of the only males that have said that. And you are absolutely right.

[Bivinz]

It's good to be loved ^_^

Thank you!

[Zyking]

too all you hard core catholics and christians, aborting a baby sends them to hell cause they don't have time to learn about God's love for them. So in terms it's like "not believing in God". Keep your babies, you get pregnant at 15, so what. Keep the baby...plus you will always look young compared to the age of your child...i think...:D

[Cheshire]

too all you hard core catholics and christians, aborting a baby sends them to hell cause they don't have time to learn about God's love for them. So in terms it's like "not believing in God". Keep your babies, you get pregnant at 15, so what. Keep the baby...plus you will always look young compared to the age of your child...i think...:DNot everyone in the world is Christian, and not everyone shares the same beliefs.

Also, "so what"? So having and raising a child is a drastically life-altering experience, to put it incredibly mildly, that isn't to be taken lightly, especially for a teenager who's not even through being a child on their own, and who's not even remotely fully developed enough, either emotionally or mentally, to be able to properly handle it.

[LordFuzzywig]

So as I man I truly have no real right to say anything.

I think any male on here spilling their views that doesn't have any personal connection with someone that has had an abortion should not even voice their opinion cause I don't think it's worth anything on the subject.
It takes two to tango, so that bullshit about "it's the woman's choice" is only partially true.

Let us not forget that TWO people made that baby happen, so it should be TWO people that make the decision in the end as well. Regardless of the choice the couple makes, it is a life-altering experience. If they abort the baby, they will have to live their lives pondering the lost potential in that child. If they keep the baby, they will have to live their lives considering how different things could have been if they had not made the mistake.

My opinion has always been sort of neutral -- abortion is a viable and extreme option, but why not have the kid and put it up for adoption? Who knows what that child could be? It could be the next President of the United States, or the next William Shakespeare. Why not give it a chance, hm?

[ninkitsu]

There truly is a way of preventing all of this. It's called teaching abstinance (sp?)!!! Schools should be teaching that instead of giving out birth control and condoms (don't ask where I found that out).

Yeah I'm quoting something from months ago. Oh well.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that Nikkita is right. Teenagers are horny. I should know. I am one ^.^;

But in all seriousness, I've discussed this point with my mom. I was lucky enough to have a very good, very thorough sex-ed at my school, being taught all about how the reproductive system works, protection, STDs, and more. I really think it helped me understand the consequences of my actions even though they did not demand that we abstain from sex (although the video of a baby being born was a pretty convincing argument to me).

While teaching abstinence may in fact convince some kids not to have sex, the problem is that if they don't teach anything else, the students may not fully grasp the consequences... and if they make the decision to have sex anyways (which many probably will), they may not know (or even think about) protecting themselves (both from pregnancy AND STDs).

Err... I guess that wasn't entirely about abortion. So just to pop my own opinion in, I'm pro-choice, though I don't think abortion should be seen as another method of birth control.

[InuKun]

For everyone who feels that the best option out there is just to teach abstinence and refuse teaching general sex education, including birth control measures, there's one key point being overlooked. The mind doesn't work the way society wants to believe that it should.

It's known as Negative Suggestion. You focus so much on avoiding doing something you've been told not to do, that you end up doing it to relieve the pressure inside of you. For you can tell someone not to do something (for example "Do not have sex"), and they'll do just what you told them not to do (Have sex).


YouTube - Derren Brown Trick Or Treat Series 2 Episode 2 - Part 3

Now, back to the debate at hand regarding abortion. Given that I am a male, I will say that I do support a woman's right to choose, because ultimately, it's not I who has to really deal with the majority of the issue. After all, it's the ladies who have to carry the fetus within them and go through child birth should they carry the pregnancy through. Not the guys. So I think a hat's off to all women, regardless of their position, because they have so much more to deal with regarding the reproductive cycle.

[Russ]

You can teach abstinency effectively, if it is part of a values education. The message most people get is: sex is fun, sex shows that you are a grown up, but... you really shouldn't do it. Why? Because some adults think you shouldn't.

On the other hand, people raised with religious values that say that sex should be reserved for marriage and is immoral outside of it can find it much easier to abstain. This is especially true if they live in a community which is consistent in its message, strongly discouraging even less forms of intimacy among singles of any age.

[ThePRPD]

I am against abortion but I won't shove my beliefs down someone's throat...

If someone is going to consider abortion I would advise them just to think long and hard about it. What happens it up to the person.

[Broly5]

I'm a 20 year old Christian guy. I know some think this is a women-only issue but I agree that it does 'take 2 to tango'. This is my view on the matter.

I read on a website before that some people think that the baby isn't alive before its born. That's impossible. How can a creature go from not being alive to being alive? There are plenty of single cell creatures all over the place, yet a human embryo isn't a living creature? Plus, if a person kills a pregnant woman, they can also be charged with the murder of the unborn child. How can that be if the unborn child isn't alive?

Someone here said that its a woman's choice to do with her body what she wants. Abortion is about what the woman wants to do with her child's body. Some argue that it takes away a woman's rights. What about the baby's rights? In this country, there are 3 rights that no one can take away from another without a legit reason, and the very first 1 is life. The baby has been denied its right to life. What's sad is that the baby doesn't get a say in the matter of its own existance.

I read on here that people who are against abortion support the death penalty. I admit that I fit into this group. Yes, killing is wrong, but some people have no respect for others or life in general. Plus, if someone tried to harm me or my family, I would defend myself. Abortion and the death penalty are both forms of murder, the difference is that people that face the death penalty are mostly cold-hearted killers. Babies that are aborted are killed for one reason only: the mere fact that they exist. This reminds me of the anime series Bleach and the Soul Society demanding that the Mod Souls be destroyed, even though they made them.

Now, I'd don't think abortions should be illegal. Let me see if I can explain this. I think that people shouldn't be able to just ask for an abortion. Take this example: say a woman gets pregnant and she already has 2 children. Later on, the woman finds out that she may not live if she has the child. She and her husband (If he's there) should sit down and think about the choice she has to make. She can either try to go through with the pregnancy and run the risk of dying and leaving her children, (This would be much worse if she is a single mother.) or have an abortion and lose her child, but still live to take care of the children she already has. This is a decision that can only be made by that particular mother and father. For the most part, abortions should be restricted to being doctor approved, and only when there is a serious risk involved. Not just an easy way to correct a mistake.

Now, about rape. This is a terrible crime, but why should the baby be aborted? Put it up for adoption, this way it at least gets to live. Yes, rape is horrible and wrong, but a baby's a baby, regardless of who the parents are, or how it was conceived. That child isn't just made from the rapist, but it's made from the woman as well.

This is my overall view on this: if you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex. It's that simple. It eliminates the need for abortions! There are plenty of others things 2 people can do together other than sleep together. Love can exist without sex, just as sex exists without love. The decision to have a baby should be made BEFORE the baby exists. Sex isn't a game that you hit reset when you don't like the outcome. If you're 'adult' enough to have sex, you're 'adult' enough to raise a child. We all know that you run the risk of getting pregnant if you have sex, so you should complain is you do end up pregnant. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Like I said, abortions should be limited to only being an option offered by doctors in extreme cases. I would just like to remind everyone that the purpose of sex is to reproduce and start families, not to kill time because there's nothing good on TV. These days, it seems that becoming pregnant is a horrible side-effect of sex, rather than a blessing.

I guess my views don't technically place me as pro-life, so I won't say that I am, but I will say that I very strongly oppose abortion, except in the situation I talked about earlier. You shouldn't have the right to end the life of child just because you want to. (I know this may be a long post but I wanted to make sure I explained myself to the best of my ability.)

[Hikuro]

Ya know, there are lots of ways to prevent having a baby if you want to have sex but they're not always fool proof, and that's why unexpected or unwanted pregnancies happen...so it's not like you can say plan before the baby exists, cause honestly you don't know if it's coming or not. For some, you can have 8 kids in 8 years or you can have zero kids.

Luckily enough for me, I date girls who take the steps to be prepared to NOT have kids and do so properly and I try and do the same.

I'v eprobably said it before, but under certain circumstances, unborn child has something wrong with it that could prove to be either fatal in the near future or fatal to the soon to be mother, it's their choice. I'd rather not have my child suffer for his or her entire life with something that can not be fixed.
Or if it was developed from some traumatizing experince. There are those who have been raped, molested, violated what have you who when looking at their child see the resemblance of the one who hurt them thus hating the child and even going as far as killing that child.

Well, just a wee nip of what I feel in my opinion but it doesn't honestly matter, whatever someone decides to do is their choice.

[Matt Cruea]

I read on a website before that some people think that the baby isn't alive before its born. That's impossible. How can a creature go from not being alive to being alive? There are plenty of single cell creatures all over the place, yet a human embryo isn't a living creature?

So should I be charged for killing all the trillions of minute, singular celled organisms I kill when I wash my dishes, take a shower, or do the laundry? A creature can certainly go from being nothing to being alive - if you kick a gentleman in the balls, are you committing mass murder? Should we hold a funeral each time a woman has a period?

There's no middle ground. Everything's alive or you wait until birth.


Someone here said that its a woman's choice to do with her body what she wants. Abortion is about what the woman wants to do with her child's body. Some argue that it takes away a woman's rights. What about the baby's rights? In this country, there are 3 rights that no one can take away from another without a legit reason, and the very first 1 is life. The baby has been denied its right to life. What's sad is that the baby doesn't get a say in the matter of its own existance.

Again, we're going to go with the semen/egg reasoning: If a man masturbates, is he taking away something's rights? After an egg is fertilized, a fetus grows inside the woman's womb. It is connected to her via an umbilical cord and is, essentially, a part of HER body. Anything that goes wrong with the fetus can damage the woman. I'd just as soon say that, until birth, you've got an extra organ inside you... that you need to feed.

The other two inalienable rights we are given as Americans are the rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By keeping the fetus, each of those two rights could be revoked, if you want to think of it that way: her freedom to do as she pleases with her life is lessened as she is forced into an unplanned pregnancy, and her happiness diminishes as she deals with the trauma of having/raising a child.


I read on here that people who are against abortion support the death penalty. I admit that I fit into this group. Yes, killing is wrong, but some people have no respect for others or life in general. Plus, if someone tried to harm me or my family, I would defend myself. Abortion and the death penalty are both forms of murder, the difference is that people that face the death penalty are mostly cold-hearted killers. Babies that are aborted are killed for one reason only: the mere fact that they exist. This reminds me of the anime series Bleach and the Soul Society demanding that the Mod Souls be destroyed, even though they made them.

Haha. Anime in an abortion thread.

Anyway, while I am both pro-choice and pro-death penalty, I can see your point - if you think abortion is murder, which is really the question at hand. Science is the only thing that can really determine when life truly starts, and I'd say it would start, scientifically, from the time it becomes a separate organism from its mother.

I'm bored and feel like replying to things. Whoooo!

[AmyAnn]

Pro-life

I have always been strongly pro-life as my mother almost aborted me when she fell pregnant because she was so young and didn't think she could cope. However, she's managed.

A few weeks ago, we had a chat in school. If a woman doesn't think she can handle a baby...ADOPTION!. In Scotland last year, only 1 baby was adopted but 30,000 were aborted despite many parents who can't have children waiting to adopt. That makes me sick.

Also, the person is still a living being, even if it's not out in the open world yet. We were shown the latest scans which were 3D and it was amazing as to how quickly the baby develops inside of the mother. The length of time that you have to abort the baby...it can feel things at that point in time which makes me seriously upset.

In my eyes, abortion is just another form of murder but it is taken less seriously than a normal crime. I'm not saying that it should be illegal and I'm not gonna go around with a clipboard and wave a pen at a woman saying "DON'T YOU DARE ABORT! DON'T LET ANYONE YOU KNOW ABORT A CHILD!!", I'm just saying my opinion.

[Sasu-kitty]

I believe only if the child's presence threatens the well-being of the mother, abortion should be considered.

As I'm very close to someone who abortion was attempted on(but somehow failed, thank goodness), I'm against it, but at the same time, I understand there are reasons why it might be called for.

1) Rape. And I'm not referring to "I was drunk so I couldn't say no" rape. I'm referring to gun-to-the-head (as an example) rape. If you were impregnated while drunk, quite frankly, it's your fault. It's not like the word "no" is erased from your vocabulary. And besides, if you decide to get so wasted you'll sleep with anyone without certain measures (contraception), it's your fault. One of my best friends, more like a sister, really, found herself in just this situation. She got wasted, slept with someone without protection, and wound up pregnant. Did she get an abortion? No. Even though she can't financially support the child, she stuck it out, and he was born about a week and a half ago. Of course, just because you give birth, doesn't mean you HAVE to keep the baby. She was responsible and looked into adoption, and now he's with a family who can support him.

2) The child's growth being a threat to the mother's health. I don't mean emotionally. "Oh my god, I have to be responsible, my life is over" is not a valid reason for abortion. I mean... the child inside the womb starts pinching a vital artery or breaks open said artery, causing a loss or lack of blood in the mother. Some situation like that.


I guess in general, I'm pro-life, but at the same time, while I don't think women should get abortions because they "felt like it" or because they just don't want to deal with it, there are some situations in which an abortion might be necessary. Even in the case of a rape, I still think the person should go through with it, and give the child up for adoption, if they really can't take care of it.

[Russ]

You do realise being drunk means you cannot give proper consent and that yes, under US law (and quite a few other countries following suit) it is rape? It doesn't always take a gun to the head for it to be rape -- if you're intoxicated and someone is taking advantage of the state you're in IT IS RAPE. Legally, yes. But unless you were drugged, you are the one who put the alcohol in your body. To get drunk generally takes some determined drinking over a period of time. We don't say that if you get drunk and drive into somebody that it is not your responsibility, after all. Being drunk should not morally excuse your actions.

[camarilla]

I don't think people are rape apologists, but they don't want what could be a baby to be stopped from growing because of who the dad (or mom! It goes both ways, even if only rarely) is.

No matter which side you're on, a lot of people here haven't been in the position - I hope I never will be - and I think that you can only really fully understand the situation if you're there. I believe a lot of positions would flip-flop. If someone is pro-choice, maybe she knows she's pregnant because _____ happened but she can't possibly think of giving it up. If someone is pro-life, maybe she knows she's pregnant because _____ happened but she can't possibly think of keeping it. I guess I'm just trying to say that maybe we can't really fully understand it, and you really have to look at both sides and not just stick to one because of logic or religion.

[Russ]

Except your analogy is faulty -- for the simple fact that if there is a sober person in the vehicle allowing a drunk person to drive, they are also held responsible. So what was your point again? Ah, right, "the poor menz those stupid drunk whores being cock teases they were totally asking for it with their mini-skirts", huh?Please don't put words in my mouth, here. You may choose to characterize women in that way - I don't. My point was the one I made - that being drunk does not absolve you of all responsibility. That does not mean that a man who is not drunk and has sex with a woman who is drunk is absolved of responsibility, either. It would certainly be rape in that case - but that doesn't make the abortion OK.

[Russ]

Okay, then how about the simple fact that a woman's choice is really none of your business?We're talking about the morality of abortion, here, and widespread societal trends affect the entire society. If you feel that men are not entitled to have opinions, why are you even reading this thread?

BTW, I'm not a pro-lifer. I believe that abortion is moral, indeed may be morally required, when the woman's life or well-being are threatened. I also believe that it is not appropriate for a secular government to have laws forbidding abortion, even in cases where I do not consider it to be moral. I'm also not a pro-choicer, as I do believe that abortion is immoral in the majority of cases.

It seems to be that before you get on your high horse and tell me your requirements for me to be allowed to express an opinion, you should make sure that you know what my position actually is.

[Russ]

And yet you feel if a woman is raped under "particular circumstances" you're free to judge her abortion as moral or immoral? Seems to me that's what you've been doing.Of course I'm free to judge abortion as moral or immoral! That's what freedom of thought is all about.


Except I wasn't giving you requirements -- I was actually suggesting you exercise a bit of empathy and a little more thought beyond thinking it's somehow a victim's responsibility to not be raped, and if they were well OMG TOUGH SHIT I'M JUDGING U!There's lots of things for which "tough shit" is the appropriate answer. Life is NOT always fair, and the impulse to try to make it so is responsible for more damage than it can ever correct. Of course I sympathize with a woman forced to carry a child as a result of a sex that happened because she was drunk. But sympathizing does not mean that I believe that killing the unborn child is therefore a moral act.


how about "unless she is sober, and legally as well as personally able to make a proper decision, the guy should keep his fucking paws off".I absolutely agree. He should. And because he didn't, he should be forced to support the child that his misdeeds brought into the world, if the woman chooses to keep it. That still doesn't make it right for her to have an abortion. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Nikki Wright]

...Okaaay. I understand that this is a discussion that can provoke a myriad of emotions, but.. none of this stuff is realllly necessary. If we could please get this back on track with calm discussion, that would be fantastic. Otherwise, I'm just going to lock the thread. :/

[Nikki Wright]

..Alright. My request went ignored - Locking the thread. :/