Why hate America? [Archive] - Voice Acting Alliance Forums

Rabids Squirrel

03-17-2008, 10:48 PM

Alright, so this is a bit of a rant and the like due to something thats been ticking me off for somtime.

So many people claim that America is the worst of all countries fo the most steryotypical reasons, and other reasons they -claim- to be true.

Even some Americans claim they hate America and Americans because they're fat, lazy, stupid and all of the above.

While that may be true on the INTERNET, I full heartedly disagree. I believe people like this are just instigators to some petty drama they create, claiming they make a difference or a standpoint.

I'm proud to be an American, which I guess makes me a rebel in my own country.

I also will throw in, I didn't care for, nor hated George W. Bush. I thought that he was just elected at a bad time when there were too many whiney Americans who couldn't remember what they wanted or didn't want. Similar to Hoover, even.

And, theres my standpoint, lets list some more things, shall we?

Kai-chan

03-17-2008, 10:56 PM

Many people hate America because Comedy Central and 4chan told them to.

I like this place though. :o

topleka

03-17-2008, 11:08 PM

Because hating the big guy has always been cool. It makes you hip, thoughtful, and trendy. Of course this country has shortcomings. What country doesn't? And because it's bigger than others, it gets a lot more attention. Of course many people who live here aren't perfect. Who IS perfect, anyway?

For the most part, people just do it because it's cool. It's not as if most people really think it out; they just repeat what they hear others say. And anyone who really does have personal reasons to hate America is racist. Yes, I went there. Actually, I should probably say country-prejudiced, since America really doesn't have a specific race. But you understand what I mean. Am I using a strong word for it? Yeah, but if not prejudiced, then tell me what word fits the definition of "hating a country and its citizens based on broad stereotypes of what those people are like."

Am I proud to be an American? Well...not really. I prefer to say I'm proud to be human. I like living in the U.S.A. I've been around the world (just a little; I'm no globetrotter), and I can honestly say I'm happy to live here. But in the end, my alliance lies with mankind, not just the U.S.

Katrina

03-17-2008, 11:13 PM

we dont hate americans, we hate bush. Bush represents america so... <_<;

Mochan

03-17-2008, 11:28 PM

we dont hate americans, we hate bush. Bush represents america so... <_<;

So you do hate America. You said it yourself, Bush represents American, thus you hate America.

It wasn't Bush who made everyone hate America. America has been hated for decades. Why? Because America gives off the "we're better than you" attitude and the rest of the world kind of hates that. Not to mention that America tends to invade places they shouldn't.

However, I have been to and lived in a few other countries and I gotta say, America has the most freedom and the most pro-rights.

Granted, these things also allows us to be very negative, hateful and ignorant. NOBODY should place a label on a whole country just because of a few people's actions. And even though we may have a lot of rights, we also lack a lot that other countries have. No country or people are perfect.

For example, Kim Jong Il. Not everyone in North Korea respects and loves his reign. It's like saying everyone in North Korea is just like him when we know they aren't.

I'm with topleka, I'm proud to be a human, but maybe not so proud to be an American. Some days, anyway.

Arahime

03-17-2008, 11:47 PM

I dissaprove of the american culture in the sense it is very shallow

I also dislike Bush because of his diregard of the effect americas emmisions has on the environment

ecafrusehtrednu

03-17-2008, 11:48 PM

Amen to topleka.

EDIT: Oh right. Most people on the internet don't like how the TV industry handles their foreign shows. Which does link to the government at times, considering they make the laws and restrictions towards it. Personally, I like dubs. Some I can disapprove of, but still, I like most of them.

About Bush, to me, most of his choices were very disagreeable. But he's not really to blame, there are also the stages in which a Bill must be passed. In other words, it's our government that's a bit wacky, not only Bush.

Bush didn't start making people hate America, but he's not exactly keeping himself from adding fuel to the fire, is he not?

Personally, I like Taiwan better. :] Not because it's government, I don't know a lick about it. Just because I like it personally. America is okay, but to me, it's quite boring. Still, it keeps me safe, don't have to worry about no invasion or shit, and all my friends are here. So I'm happy to live here.

Hane Moon

03-17-2008, 11:54 PM

I can honestly say I'm not too FOND of Bush and some of his choices, but I'm not against him. I'm more apathetic. I don't KNOW all of what he's done, so I can't make any judgment on him based on the very little I know.

I'm grateful for living here; we have so many choices for so many things available to us, I feel pretty safe here, and there's so much diversity. But, like every country, it has issues. I see a lot of people complaining about all the bad stuff and blaming it on Bush instead of seeing how lucky they are, or DOING something about the bad stuff. Do they honestly think the president can fix everything on his own? It can't be done. It's one of those "societies' responsibility to itself and others" things, I guess. We need to help out, too. Pinning all problems on Bush solves nothing except making you feel less responsible.

And no, I'm obviously not saying everybody behaves like this. Just pointing out one view on the whole situation. (Which, again, I can't know everything about.)

A while back in school in my History class, we were having a discussion about a shooting down by a school. One of my classmates said "It's like we only come together as one during a real crisis or tragedy, but when it's over we pretty much go back to normal."

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 12:00 AM

I dissaprove of the american culture in the sense it is very shallow

I also dislike Bush because of his diregard of the effect americas emmisions has on the environment

Be more specific. How are we shallow? That's the problem with most of the insult slung at America and it's people. They are too general and clump every American together. We all live different lives and have different opinions. Also, do you think it's up to Bush if whether or not we try to help the enviroment. It's up to those who will make money off of it. If you want to blame anyone, blame lobbyist and those who accept their contribution with open arms, like Hillary Clinton, Mike Huckabee, hell, any politician. The issue here is that most people don't understand what the President of the United States does. He has little power beyond his power to veto. His major job is to do what his party tells him to do. I don't like Bush, but I think that most peoples scorn is directed in the wrong location.

Katrina

03-18-2008, 12:02 AM

Mochan

03-18-2008, 12:28 AM

By the way... Bush started every single war that is happening right now in the world... ofcourse he can stop it by him self.

Uh, duh, he's the president. >_< Bush hasn't been the only president to start a war!

You know, I'm not a huge supporter of Bush, but I really hate it when people look at America JUST through Bush and his actions. BigTUnit1 hit the nail on the head. People are lumping a whole country based on one stereotype or one American or whatever. It's so annoying.

Arahime, you're basing an entire country off of...what? Why do you think we're ALL shallow? That just makes no sense and it's very insulting. :/

EDIT: Actually, how about, because of your statement, I just assume everyone in the UK is ignorant? :/

Which I never would, but it's just to prove a point that a lot of people assume and don't look at the facts or the picture as a whole.

Katrina

03-18-2008, 12:39 AM

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 12:42 AM

Iam not saying america is bad, i wanna live there actually ^^; iam just pointing out what people would first think of america.

I would love to live in america, its a great place for living!

By the way... Bush started every single war that is happening right now in the world... ofcourse he can stop it by him self. If you didnt know... other rulers bow to bush and bush bows to israel.

Is this your opinion, or this is a fact? If it's a fact, can you give me some evidence? This is another problem I have with a lot of American bashing. Too many people like to use an opinionated statement as a fact. If you're going to make such a bold statement, than support it with facts, or people won't be able to take you seriously in these types of matters.

EDIT: Show me the video where GW said that your people were terrorist, and you're point will be more valid.

Matt Alan

03-18-2008, 12:43 AM

I'm an American. And I'm proud to be an American.

I'll say it, I have no problem with it. I may personally disagree with the man in "charge"'s politics and beliefs, but I don't dislike him personally. The United States is just like any other country in the world, in history. This country has done acts that aren't always agreeable to the rest of the world, but you can say that about ANY country.

The U.K. is awesome...sure, I remember reading in my history books about England expanding it's empire into other regions. Just ask Ireland what they think about the U.K., both north AND southern Ireland, you'll get two very different answers.

Hitler was an asshole. Do people hate Germany and all Germans because of one man? I think most all people can agree they universally hate Hitler, and most of the world can agree they dislike Bush, but can you compare the two? In fifty years from now, after George W. Bush is a faded memory, will anyone care? Or will it just be, "Ohhhh George! You and your silly war for oil!"?

Pick up a history book and read about your own country of origin. Tell me it has a spotless record. And then I'll tell you you're wrong, and cite resources proving thus. Get your facts straight, before passing judgement.

Mochan

03-18-2008, 12:43 AM

Please watch the news more... not american news...they dont show all the children that are being killed...

And please don't mis-judge me. I dislike what Bush is doing and I do watch the news and I know very well what is going on. But the point is, people are judging America through Bush and that is very wrong.

EDIT: You're not even making sense. As far as I'm aware, Bush has never said the people of the UK are terrorists. Prove me wrong, though. You really need to come up with proof to back up your allegations.

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 12:58 AM

yukie

03-18-2008, 01:04 AM

Where's the "I'm not American and I don't give a damn" option? D:

Hatomikazuki

03-18-2008, 01:08 AM

Please, dont get me wrong...
I LOVE america but HATE bush and thats because he tells his people that my people are terrorists and tells lies about everything. Now that aint fair on us is it?

Please watch the news more... not american news...they dont show all the children that are being killed...

Please forgive me if I sound very rude...I get bitchy in politics~ <3

Please, be INFORMED before you make such statements. And also, Bush is soon to be out of office...I mean, I can't blame people for talking about him, as he's going to be in office for another year (and it's not your fault if you don't live in America, and don't know this...I'm not trying to sound obnoxious), but there's an election coming up, and people really should also think about the new candidates ideas. You LOVE America? Why? Are you saying that because people are saying you're wrong? If you hate Bush, fine. I'll say it. I don't like his ideas either, I don't support him. And you know what? Not ALL Americans, in fact, very few in many areas actually think that your people are terrorists (I'm not sure where you're from, but I'm assuming somewhere around the area where the war is going on, right...? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and um...If you're from the UK...When the HECK did anyone suggest you guys were terrorists...?!), infact many people are saying there's no point in us being in Iraq, and we should get the hell out. There are plenty of places where you can see that there are bad things happening. Have you watched the news in America? Have you READ the magazines in America? Do you stay updated on the news in America? No. I haven't read the news where you come from either, but you haven't read the news here have you?
Like Matt Alan said (curse you for stealing my example! >D ), saying you hate Americans because Bush (and other leaders have done stupid things), is like saying you hate Germans because they were involved in the halocaust, and Hitler lead them.
People hate Americans because they lump people together in groups, the group of the "stereotypical American". Some people do it because they're angry, and some people do it because they're just ignorant.
Yeah. There are a hell of a lot of Americans that are idiots, lazy, and out right racist ass holes, but not everyone is like that, and the only reason people hate America is due to the stereotype. And that's stupid.

And to Arahime:
We're not the only ones causing pollution. That's really a terrible reason to hate a country. Yeah, we most certainly should be doing more to stop Global Warming...But some people are trying. And I'll repeat it again...America. Is. Not. The. Only. Country. That. Pollutes. Stopping pollution has to be an effort of everyone around the world. You can't pin it on one nation. Regardless of how much they do pollute. Pollution, and energy conservation, etc, is one area everyone has to work together on to improve...right? =3

I bet I said something really stupid in that, which made me sound underinformed...Which contradicted what I said and...
>_<'' Someone please correct me if I said something stupid....*dead*

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 01:34 AM

Coming from an American.

Look at it like this: We're a very young country, very big, and very influential and powerful. So we must be bad, right? Sure, there are many things in this country I am not proud of, same goes for all countries, mind you, but, there are many things I am proud of as well. Our constitution is a modern work of art, although underlined with promisory notes and exceptions, it's a beautiful dedication to democracy. We're free, so we must be bad.

I read an essay written by a Canadian, this does not extend to any Canadians at all (I am a proud owner of a canadian citizenship myself), who said something like this: "I've only met a few of them, but they seemed nice." I was strongly offended by her essay ... It was all about, basically, the view many Canadians have about America. Oh, give it a break. Sure, a whole lot of us are fat, but so is most of Europe. There are many european countries on parr with the obesity issue. So, yay, we're not the only fat ones. Two, we're in war, forcing our own soldiers into combat.

Yes. No. Yes, we are in war. It's easy for everyone to criticize us, because they were not here to witness the Twin Towers tragedy. And, if wanting to protect something of ours, America, that was brutally attacked, makes us a bad country, then by all means. No, we are not forcing anyone. Drafting, as far as I know, has not been reinstated. People enter the military by their own choice, everyone.

"Oh, but they're so rude." Yeah, sure, some of us are, but I've met many rude people from different countries. It's a world wide concept.

Our president? Half the world thinks he's the devil. Opinions aside, he was just sworn in at the wrong time, and I don't think he handled his second term very nicely at all. This makes him the devil? You're allowed your opinions. But may I point out Fidel Castro, who is now stepping down, and, his brother, Something Castro? He's getting a lot less attention than the 'Ol Bush-mister is. I'm sorry, but I'd choose Bush over communism any day. People only complain about him because they do not know what it is like to live under a totalitarian rule.

They're so racist. That died out long ago. But, of course, there are still racists; there are in many countries, in fact, in whole countries. We're a pluralistic society, meaning, we're all different cultures rolled into one, which is a new, positive world view. So, racism is not really plausable.

Well, in any case, I'm very proud of where I come from.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 01:45 AM

I'm just going to fit this in here. I'm not trying to target anyone, but I found that a lot of UK'ers have to say something similar to this:

I dissaprove of the american culture in the sense it is very shallow

I also dislike Bush because of his diregard of the effect americas emmisions has on the environment

America, I suppose, does give off a "we're better than you" vibe. But, hey, we're young. You could expect that from us, right? And, on the off hand, I don't understand your reasoning, really. I'm not shallow. In fact, I don't know many people who are shallow. I don't think our president is shallow, although, he isn't doing so hot ... I think people who assume we are 'shallow' have either hardly lived here, or heard it somewhere else, found it catchy, and repeat it.

And, I cannot stress enough, that it is not only Bush-mister, but, mainly the government in and of itself, who is causing the chain-reacting of dislike globally.

We're shallow? No. Enviromentally unfriendly? We're trying. But don't blame all the smog on one man, Arahime.

By the way... Bush started every single war that is happening right now in the world... ofcourse he can stop it by him self. If you didnt know... other rulers bow to bush and bush bows to israel.

Not cool. I'm sorry, but Bush had every right to go after the 9/11 attackers. I think he is getting up in affairs he should not be, like coercing Israel to give land to Palestine, but he cannot end these war, he didn't start them either. He started one war, and others followed, on their own accord.

He has only the real power to veto.

Arahime, you're basing an entire country off of...what? Why do you think we're ALL shallow? That just makes no sense and it's very insulting. :/

EDIT: Actually, how about, because of your statement, I just assume everyone in the UK is ignorant? :/

Exactly.

I'm quite surprised; most of the American bashing is done by the UK'ers ... and most of the support is from Americans, which I am not used to.

And please don't mis-judge me. I dislike what Bush is doing and I do watch the news and I know very well what is going on. But the point is, people are judging America through Bush and that is very wrong.

EDIT: You're not even making sense. As far as I'm aware, Bush has never said the people of the UK are terrorists. We're allies! You really need to come up with proof to back up your allegations.

Exactly, again.

I'm sorry, but I go to school with some of these so called "terrorists" ... the military does not shoot them after class, persocute them, or anything else. I think you're sorely mistaken.

HatomiKazuki: i love you

Scarlotte

03-18-2008, 02:04 AM

Where's the "I'm not American and I don't give a damn" option? D: I was looking for that option too. Mind you, it was a "I don't care if they are american or not." >.<

EDIT: Okay, in my opinion I also have to agree that Bush was just brought in at not the best time. I mean when the Twin Towers crashed what was Bush supposed to do, if he didn't retaliate it would leave America vunerable to more attacks and there could be a big war on this side of the planet. At the moment I think the hole dug in Iraq is too big to just get up and go. If Bush leaves now I don't know what the people over there would do, would they try to get back? Or do you think they could even rebuild a government after the massive damage done over there.

On to the stereoypes, I've met plenty of Americans and pretty much all of them have been awesome. Really, every Country has there stereotypes I beleive it's just a matter of how strong the individual is to not judge a Country based on some assumption. I had something else to say but I can't remeber what it is now. >.>

SidheWulf

03-18-2008, 02:41 AM

I identify more with my state than my country....something of a regionalist.

I'm not very patriotic, but I do get very defensive when someone lumps all Americans together in a less-than-flattering stereotype. It's ignorant and in extremely bad taste.

GameBuddy

03-18-2008, 02:56 AM

I always figured the world hated the United States because we get all the good video games first. . .

Sirius

03-18-2008, 03:13 AM

Where's the "I'm not American and I don't give a damn" option? D:

Where's the "I am American and I don't give a damn" option? <_< >_>

mippa

03-18-2008, 03:20 AM

After living in Japan for three years, I love America more than ever. I personally don't think your country is what makes you entirely--but bashing any country--like any race, religion, what have you--is in extremely poor taste. You may disagree with a country and its policies--but to hate America is just as bad as hating any other country or group of people. Because essentially it isn't America they hate. It's Americans.

...and I think for a lot of people, it takes living outside of America to realize just how good we've got it over there.

Rabids Squirrel

03-18-2008, 03:36 AM

I have to agree full heartedly with Luna Maria. There is not a thing I disagree about with her.

And I apologise to everyone for not adding such options of nuetral status XD;;

I was in too much of a pissed mood to think about it >_>;

But, in the case of Bush going to war, I saw live when the Twin Towers fell.

I live about 45 minutes away from where they fell. Hell, the third plane that crashed was headed for Philidelphia! And I'm a good 10 minutes away from the heart of the city!

I wanted somthing to be done about it, and so did many other Americans.

I recall a commercial with a bunch of stoops haveing an American flag over them. Sadly, you don't see it too much anymore.

Its true we come together mostly only in crysis, but that is the deal with anything.

Bush was just put in at the wrong time, and I feel bad for him knowing this. Though, I do think that a good deal of his decisions were justified.

Even so, can you expect somone to get it right 100% of the time? Especially in times like these.

The American culture is anything but shallow. Our culture is made up of multiple other cultures, so try to be less vauge , please.

Also, there is no way that the UK has been presented as terrorists. And Bush has called no one terrorists beside the Al Quida (Sorry if spelling is off)

Kitty

03-18-2008, 03:46 AM

I agree with mippa.

Plus, how can you judge an American when we all really..don't act the same? I mean, look at how we judge different states in America. I hail from Arkansas, but are you going to stereotype me into the "traditional Southern blonde girl with an accent"?

I mean..Who are you to judge? Even though we live in different parts of the world, we all are still human. Don't judge or stereotype people into categories by who leads (Bush does not represent every single American citizen, kthx) or whatever.

So let's treat each other like humans, 'kay? And I also agree with Sirius, that option needs to be there. :3

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 03:56 AM

Plus, how can you judge an American when we all really..don't act the same? I mean, look at how we judge different states in America. I hail from Arkansas, but are you going to stereotype me into the "traditional Southern blonde girl with an accent"?

Amen. I hail from California, and, well, I've come across several states that have stereotyped me blonde, sun-tanner, etc. Hah! I'm a red head, pasty, and I hate the beach. This really has nothing with hating America, but, really what right have others to patronize this country, unless they've lived here for a considerable amount of time?

Hathor Liderc

03-18-2008, 04:02 AM

Despite our country's "kinks," Im proud to be an American. While were not perfect, we are better off than most others.

What I don't agree with is the constant bashing on America, without a concrete reason why. Other nations really have no right to judge us as a whole, since we're such a diverse culture, due to the amount of immigrants we get from all over the world.

yukie

03-18-2008, 04:03 AM

But you have to admit, many Americans are so patriotic that it just gets so annoying.

But that's about it.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:04 AM

But you have to admit, many Americans are so patriotic that it just gets so annoying.

But that's about it.

No, I don't. How so?

Hathor Liderc

03-18-2008, 04:09 AM

No, I don't. How so?

I second that. Please explain.

yukie

03-18-2008, 04:11 AM

mippa

03-18-2008, 04:16 AM

So are you saying the same of Japan? Japan is far worse than America in that respect. I'm sorry, but I am a very patriotic American--and Texan, for that matter--and I see nothing wrong about being grateful for being where we are. We aren't saying we're better than anyone else. It's our way of saying "thank you" to everyone and everything that makes our country so wonderful to live in.

Plenty of people in other countries are happy/honored/proud of their country. It's not an American thing--outside of the fact that, being an open country, we have a lot of people who want a piece of that. =3

I think this idea of Americans acting "superior" pretty tainted in your own viewpoint. Having pride in something doesn't mean we're saying it's the best. We're just saying it's freaking awesome. It's no different than us gushing over the latest hot anime.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:18 AM

Like you guys right now.

It's more of an impact when someone like me, who isn't American, enters the country and immediately gets hit in the face with American flags everywhere. Or how people make such a big deal of America, but really... it's Americans themselves who are doing it. For example, the election going on right now- it's such a big deal because it's completely blown up by the media and the people in America; everyone's talking about it, America MUST have the best leader, etc. That's important of course, as choosing one's leader is important to every country, but it really isn't too much of a worldwide issue as the media makes it seem like at the moment.

I'm not criticizing Americans as a whole, I'm just saying how fast Americans jump to protect their country's pride and "superiority". It's almost a bit too much sometimes.

I don't mean to sound rude, Yukie, and hope I don't (because I like joo), but of course you're going to be hit with American flags. Hello, it's America? Were you thinking you'd see a British flag, or a French flag? Odds are unlikely. And, the election? Of course it's a huge deal... After the hysteria of Bush, you'd think so. Bush's time was less media-induced, but, due to our war, oil crisis, and other attributing factors, I would think that this would be a big deal: We have a black muslim (< well, rumored to be, although no official evidence cornerning the alligations has been leeked or issued) running and a woman running for president all in one election. That's pretty new, and should be covered largely.

I don't, hope I don't, sound a bit belitting, as I don't know much about Canada, even though I have myself a lovely citizenship there, think that Canada has as much news coverage on these things quite like American, so of course it's too much for you. Perhaps I am wrong; please correct me if I am. But, the only reason I am being 'overly-patriotic' is because a bunch of people from other countries are making half-baked assumptions about how pompous we are.

mippa

03-18-2008, 04:23 AM

*gives LunaMaria ice cream* Werd up, girl. Werd up.

Matt Alan

03-18-2008, 04:24 AM

: We have a black muslim running

er, just wanted to say, he's NOT a Muslim. He goes to a Church of Christ.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:24 AM

*glomptackleglomp* Why, thank you Mippa. My favorite flavor ~

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:27 AM

just wanted to say, he's NOT a Muslim. He goes to a Church of Christ

Well, from what I have heard he may or may not be, but for now, I'm just keeping it in italics to empahsis it's tentativeness. In any case, there is circulation that he is, so it's still a factor against him that is making this election a big deal, as all presidents have been sworn in christian. I will add a tiny note denoting that though.

Thanks for pointing that out, though.

mippa

03-18-2008, 04:29 AM

That is correct, the rumors about Obama being Muslim are false--though damn that would make it interesting.

But that's not all. This is the first election in 58 years (I think?) in which the race is wide open. Political scientists antipated this election to be absolutely breakneck all the way to the finish line. That is just the way American politics are--and it has so many reasons. The huuuuge size of the country, how spread out we all are, the fact we are a democratic republic, the media influence on the people...

If we're going to go on and on and on about the problems/weirdness of America, can I go ahead and make one for Japan? They've got America beat a million times over. =P

yukie

03-18-2008, 04:31 AM

But this just strengthens my opinion of how partriotic Americans annoy me sometimes. It's my personal opinion, so you don't really have to spend so much time proving me wrong :/

Referring back to the flag thing, no, I didn't mean that I expected to see a British flag or anything in America. It's just my observation that there are a whole lot of flags everywhere D: Perhaps it's because you're used to this as you see them everyday, but in Canada and most of the other countries I've visited, they all pale in comparison as to how many flags are displayed. Just an observation, guys.

But of course, Lunamaria, America would have more news coverage on these things. Because it's your own country. Well, that and no one here really cares all that much :X

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:32 AM

Yes, Mippa, but there is much love for Japan... for America? Not so much.

WORLD: Japan > America, unfortunately.

ME: Disney > Universe.

But this just strengthens my opinion of how partriotic Americans annoy me sometimes. It's my personal opinion, so you don't really have to spend so much time proving me wrong :/

Referring back to the flag thing, no, I didn't mean that I expected to see a British flag or anything in America. It's just my observation that there are a whole lot of flags everywhere D: Perhaps it's because you're used to this as you see them everyday, but in Canada and most of the other countries I've visited, they all pale in comparison as to how many flags are displayed. Just an observation, guys.

But of course, Lunamaria, America would have more news coverage on these things. Because it's your own country. Well, that and no one here really cares all that much :X

I don't mean to prove you wrong; just justify, is all. Well, I suppose a view is a view, and, in truth, most Canadians I know find America annoying, mostly, I find, because the world has kind of lumped America and Canada together, because Canada lacks a sufficient military power. I have a boat, a big boat, load of relatives born-and-raised in Canada, and they all feel the same way you do Yukie.

mippa

03-18-2008, 04:35 AM

Actually, I have seen a lot more Japanese flags here in Japan on average than I have in America--and really, the main reason there are so many flags in America these days is because of 9/11, it is our way of staying strong in remembrance of that.

As long as it's not nationalistic, I don't see why people should be so gosh-darned judgemental of people who take pride in their country--here, or anywhere.

It's just the way Americans are. We value and cherish our freedom to express our opinion--be it our disagreement with something (like generalizations) or agreement (that Bush screwed up) or happiness (like pride in our country). So when people tell us that the core of our identity--which is liberty--is foolish, you can't fault us for getting a little bristled at that.

It's your opinion, and we're giving ours. I don't see how it's any different, other than that we might outnumber you in this situation. ;;

edit: And referring to your comment that no one really cares::WRONG. A lot of countries care. They are covering it in their news, and here in Japan, it's allthey talk about, even when Americans are not present. (For example, when I went to my Spitz concert, the lead singer spoke at length about Obama between a set. He had no idea I was there.)

yukie

03-18-2008, 04:36 AM

It's your opinion, and we're giving ours. I don't see how it's any different, other than that we might outnumber you in this situation. ;;

Oh yes, as with most situations.

mippa

03-18-2008, 04:38 AM

Yes, Mippa, but there is much love for Japan... for America? Not so much.

WORLD: Japan > America, unfortunately.

ME: Disney > Universe.

Only in otaku crowds, generally. Most foreigners (especially girls) that come to Japan change their minds real fast. I still love Japan, but:

Japan = America

I refuse to take the opinion of anyone who says Japan > America until they have lived here for at least two years.

mippa

03-18-2008, 04:39 AM

Oh yes, as with most situations.

Then I, too, would find that situationannoying. Not the people. So I fail to see how it would be relevant to the point.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:40 AM

Well, I'll go with you on that one Mippa, as I have never lived in Japan, nor want to; visiting is just dandy.

yukie

03-18-2008, 04:42 AM

That's not really what I meant, but okay, I'm sorry.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:43 AM

That's not really what I meant, but okay, I'm sorry.

You should never be sorry for your opinion, Yukie. It's important to always voice it and never take it back, just because not everyone agrees with you.

yukie

03-18-2008, 04:45 AM

I'm not sorry for my opinion. I'm sorry I strayed from the point, as it's just so important ;)

With that, I'll take my leave of this thread.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:46 AM

*wavewave* Bye, Yukie. Nice chatting ~

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 04:51 AM

Mochan

03-18-2008, 04:54 AM

And this is one reason that I try to avoid the subject of politics. Minds will never be changed. I like talking about politics, but only if it stays open. More often then not, these type of conversation leaves someone hurt.:-?

Seriously. :/

And I'd like to chime in with the whole American flag thing. In China, there are Chinese flags EVERYWHERE. It's way worse than in America. I really don't see American flags at all. Maybe along the borders and in airports, of course, but I just don't see them. Even when I went to NY, I didn't see that many.

But I fail to see why having American flags up and loving our country makes people hate us. ;_;

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 04:54 AM

Well, no one is forced into the board to debate, are they?

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 04:58 AM

Well, no one is forced into the board to debate, are they?

Indeed, I just pity those who give an opinion not shared by the majority. I don't forgive ignorance, but I do forgive those who make mistakes, and if someone walks away from a debate with experience, then they are better off^_^

Celira

03-18-2008, 04:59 AM

I declare shenanigans.

But in all seriousness, doesn't the vast majority of this debate take root in the overwhelming predisposition to make unfounded generalizations? Political discussion is often contentious because people don't enter it bearing in mind that we don't necessarily have a fraction of the various perspectives and bases of knowledge to make a wholly informed statement. This doesn't mean that you're completely wrong or that everyone is entirely right, but it certainly doesn't mean you're 100% correct from the get-go. So open-mindedness would be rather good. You can't go wrong with respecting that you might not know everything and neither does everyone else.

Got nothin' else, y'all. -scoots off-

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 05:01 AM

Mochan

03-18-2008, 05:01 AM

But in all seriousness, doesn't the vast majority of this debate take root in the overwhelming predisposition to make unfounded generalizations? Political discussion is often contentious because people don't enter it bearing in mind that we don't necessarily have a fraction of the various perspectives and bases of knowledge to make a wholly informed statement. This doesn't mean that you're completely wrong or that everyone is entirely right, but it certainly doesn't mean you're 100% correct from the get-go. So open-mindedness would be rather good. You can't go wrong with respecting that you might not know everything and neither does everyone else.

And this is one of the biggest points I've been trying to make all along. But Celira just has a way with words. <3

Hane Moon

03-18-2008, 05:02 AM

yukie

03-18-2008, 05:03 AM

Indeed, I just pity those who give an opinion not shared by the majority. I don't forgive ignorance, but I do forgive those who make mistakes, and if someone walks away from a debate with experience, then they are better off^_^

Off topic now, but I take that as an insult. Are you looking down on me?

Haha, I know I know, I said I was leaving D: But this is different :/

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 05:06 AM

Off topic now, but I take that as an insult. Are you looking down on me?
Not at all. If you are debating for the right reasons, then that's great. The fact that you had a heated conversation on a losing side, then left the debate without heated words is abmirable. I am not insulting you at all, yukie:)

yukie

03-18-2008, 05:09 AM

Oh okay then, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Chioku

03-18-2008, 07:41 AM

i never really thought about it all that much. i dont love America but i dont think it's an aboniation to the world. I just, nothing it really. I see it as any other island that pops out of the sea. An island that makes cool TV shows. (SCRUBS!)

Minty

03-18-2008, 08:50 AM

Yeah, I don't really get the poll. Is that "I'm not an American and I love ... America, or not being American?" Is it America that's the abomination to the world, or my not being American? XD

Anyway. I'm never quite sure what to think, because I don't like to upset people. I haven't been a fan of some of the president's larger decisions (as I'm not always content with the decisions of our own government), and I'll admit that I may have been guilty at times of drinking up the aperture view of the mass media, or spitting it out when it seems there's too much of it, and sure there are stories and the like that go around and produce the stock response, "only in America..." But we already know, there's never going to be enough of the story there to make anything even close to a properly informed judgement.

Like someone said before, your country just happens to be a large one, and powerful, up there on the world stage in the spotlight and so - I don't know, I guess there'll be people looking for a scapegoat, or an easy butt-of-a-joke, or just hating because hate seems inevitably to be a human thing, and maybe it's easier to hate in black-and-white thinking. Put it under the umbrella of the tall poppy syndrome if you like. I don't know. I'm speculating. I don't have a reason to hate America in itself and as a whole; especially not you who have yet to offend me personally by word or deed, while most of you pick up the 'r's that I drop. XD

(Now if you laugh at or get offended by this post, I'll show you hate in a laughable comeback. Politics and debating were never my thing. X3)

Katrina

03-18-2008, 09:28 AM

And please don't mis-judge me. I dislike what Bush is doing and I do watch the news and I know very well what is going on. But the point is, people are judging America through Bush and that is very wrong.

EDIT: You're not even making sense. As far as I'm aware, Bush has never said the people of the UK are terrorists. Prove me wrong, though. You really need to come up with proof to back up your allegations.

lol although iam from the UK iam not british, but palestinian... you know, that country they call israel? Almost everyone in america thinks arabs are terrorists.... how do you think we feel? i can bring alot of evidence if you want to clarify that its all Bush's fault.
Its all a fact people.... you might not see it from an american point of view but you will see it clearly from an arab point of view.

Not only that but almost everyone in the USA thinks muslims are terrorist... i mean cmon! iam a muslim...do you see me KILLING people around the country?

Plus do you know september 11, when there was a 'terrorist' attack on the 2 towers... well guess what... BUSH planned it all along... it werent muslim terrorist as Bush made the media say...

IT IS PROVEN BY AMERICAN SCIENTISTS that bush almost killed thousands of people in america that day...
I mean how stupid could bush get? the buildings were EMPTY before the attack took place, i mean cmon... are we stupid?

Of course no offence to anyone, but this is the truth.

Iam not against america in any way... i love america and love americans... i just hate bush... I dont hate america >< please dont get me wrong.

If you want more evidence iam filled with them :)

Galidan

03-18-2008, 09:44 AM

Not only that but almost everyone in the USA thinks muslims are terrorist... i mean cmon! iam a muslim...do you see me KILLING people around the country?

I realize that there are plenty of Americans who believe this, but there are many who don't. I work in a supermarket and there is a sizable community of Muslims from UAE who shop there who are among the most polite and well spoken people I have ever met, and my coworkers agree with me.

/Galidan

Katrina

03-18-2008, 12:55 PM

(To clarify, the following is more to do with the govt rather than the people as a whole, so don't take it to an off-tangent rant of "omg u h8 american ppl !!1") American policy and hypocrisy and lack of class/tact in dealing with certain issues is what pisses off a lot of people, including their own people, and I can't say I don't blame them either. How can you have billions of dollars to send to a country who doesn't need it (Israel) each year, but not have the money to invest properly in to its own country? Or how about the US making laws to protect its own interests, and yet, when the tables are turned they're not following the very laws they put in place because it's "no longer in their interest" to do so (Softwood lumber dispute, Iraq)...? Even better, the mess the rest of the world has to clean up because the US govt decides to muddle in affairs they have no right to be messing with in the first place (Haiti, Afghanistan today and during the Soviet-Afghan war)? Or better yet, what about the treatment of natives that still happens today? How about the treatment of muslims, arabs, etc... Yeah, America has a lot of freedom, sure... however I know a few other countries out there that are actually doing a lot better in that respect (gay marriage, health care, education, quality of life, for example)...

EXACTLY!
when it comes to america people have ALL the rights they deserve but when it comes to arabs... pfftt who cares?
Bush muddled up with Iraq because HE says that he wants to save the people from their ruler but infact the truth is that Bush wants all the fuel that is stored in Iraq for him self.
No Iraqi's asked Bush to save them did they? He just wants to clarify his invasion with a VERY pathetic excuse.

Ok now ghaza...PEOPLE ARE KILLED EVERYDAY! and guess what... NO ONE CARES! Its been going on for months and months and no one did anything to help the poor people being killed by bush and israel... they shut down ALL the electricity in ghaza and bombed them! could it get any more grusome?! None of these murders were shown on american tv because bush doesnt want his people to know what he's doing.

When it came to israelies getting attacked in their religious place... guess what... BUSH STARTED TO CARE! and it was all over the news the same day. I mean... why doesnt he show the crimes that he has done in ghaza on tv? why does he only care about israelies?
WE ARE HUMAN AS WELL! no one gives a crap about us... WHY? we die everyday and bush is silent. WHY IS HE NOT SILENT WHEN ISRAELIES ARE KILLED?

let me show you something.

http://www.desert-voice.net/Lebanese%20injured%20baby.jpg

ITS LIKE THAT EVERYDAY IN GHAZA... and no one cares...

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 01:41 PM

Plus do you know september 11, when there was a 'terrorist' attack on the 2 towers... well guess what... BUSH planned it all along... it werent muslim terrorist as Bush made the media say...

IT IS PROVEN BY AMERICAN SCIENTISTS that bush almost killed thousands of people in america that day...
I mean how stupid could bush get? the buildings were EMPTY before the attack took place, i mean cmon... are we stupid?

Of course no offence to anyone, but this is the truth.

Iam not against america in any way... i love america and love americans... i just hate bush... I dont hate america >< please dont get me wrong.

If you want more evidence iam filled with them

I'm sorry, I don't care if your white, purple, or orange. Bush creating The Twin Towers? That's only a conspiracy theory, proven by no one, only suggested. I saw people jump off of that building to their deaths, mind you... I suppose those are just fake as well. Merely an image planted into my mind covertly by the government? I think it is easy for you to take lightly because this is not your country and your country is being mishandled by the U.S, which is unfortunate.

Plaestine did not attack the twin towers. And, I don't mean to offend you, really I don't, but you weren't in the buildings before they crashed did you? So, you couldn't know they were empty. I'd simply like some evidence to your provovactive suggestions. I seem to think that all this discontent is simply because your ethnicity tends to be subject of quite a bit of controversy, which, again, is unfortunate, as it is not even your country that we declared war with.

You don't hate America? I think I'm confused.

Katrina

03-18-2008, 02:00 PM

I dont hate america in any way... i just hate the person Bush. America is a great country :) its just bush that is spreading the disease.

Lunamaria

03-18-2008, 05:05 PM

I'm actually trying to chill out. That's why hate when I debate with someone; I come across as a total jerk. Sorry, I'm really not. Yeah, it's a semi-convincing theory, but this person, not an American, claims that there was no one there, no one killed. I saw it happen, and, yes, people died. I'm not too sure on living conditions, and I'm not disregarding the theory as a whole.

And, on the side, I really don't agree with most of the government. This whole debate isn't supposed to be about the bush-mister, even though it is. It's about everyone assuming (assume - ass - u - me) that we always love our government and Bush. However, I do agree with some things, and not others, but I cannot be sure on everything other people outside the country tell me as well.

If you'll notice, similar attacks were carried around in other parts of the world. This can't all be done by one man. So, I stand on my belief that there are holes in both the conspiracy theory and our countrys' explanation.

Crazy things are happening, man.

Sorry for sounding rude; I really don't mean to. I was just a tad angry.

On another note:
ur just jellis/u must hate America & freedom

I'd somehow hate to think that this is implying that I am some sort of illiterate troll who plays the "I'm rubber you're glue game ..." because, it's a bit insulting. I am an english major, and, above all, an open-minded person, although I defend myself as well.

I was simply stateing several reasons I have been told we are a bad country. Those were only reasons the surface, not deeper issues, which have now, as your opinion/view/reasons have dug up, so my original reasoning for those things should not really be applied.

Mochan

03-18-2008, 05:16 PM

i can bring alot of evidence if you want to clarify that its all Bush's fault.

The war on Iraq is Bush's fault, but he by no means started terrorism in ANY country. Please, pick up a history book or watch the history channel. :) You're basically pinning all terrorism on Bush and that's not right at all.

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 05:25 PM

Nikkita, you say that people need to read more about there government. Seeing as you have, you should already know that our government no longer works for the people, but for it's own party's interest. Do you really think that we, as a people, have any say on how our country is runned? That's the delusion of a true democracy we never had. Please don't assume all of us are ignorant of this. Oh, and narutofied, I do mourn what is happening to your people, but to blame a man with little foreign policy understanding is extreme. You can blame human nature that causes people to hate those who are different.

Mochan

03-18-2008, 05:41 PM

You can blame human nature that causes people to hate those who are different.

Exactly. I do feel for those innocent and those civilians who have lost lives through wars. It's never pretty, but this is also not the first war it's happened in, unfortunately. Every war has casualties and for you to bring up those casualties as if it's OUR fault, that's just...ridiculous. How about blaming the people who ACTUALLY did those things?

And I do agree that some American's are very annoying when they say stuff like, "I love America! Fuck all other countries! They're all commies!" I have actually heard people say this and it's amazing to me. But you must realize that we're all not like that. I love my country, but I also love the world and would live in any other country at the drop of a hat if I could (not forever, just to get the experience, culture, etc).

And you can't begin to tell me that there isn't a group of people acting the same patriotic way that we do, in other countries. Maybe it's not as "extreme", but it's still there.

EDIT: I would also like to add and reiterate that our government is pretty much out of our hands right now. They keep us voting, but only to keep us appeased. Our government is so corrupt, it makes our head spin. I don't agree with ANYTHING our government is telling us. We've all known something is wrong, but there's nothing we can do.

Except maybe hold a mutiny.

Whatocean

03-18-2008, 06:07 PM

Not wanting to get into a political discussion with anyone, I'll be brief...

I am a veteran United States Marine.

I'm proud to be an American, I've sung that song, and I'm proud to be hated, too.
America wouldn't be the country that it is if it did whatever to please the eyes of the world.
America gave me the freedom to fight, the freedom to choose to be a voice actor afterwards, and the freedom to be obnoxious.

I owe a lot to this country. Had my family not escaped the Communist takeover in Laos, I wouldn't be here doing what I love.

That's all I have to say about that.
Feel free to sling your shit at me, America-haters.
^_^

Mochan

03-18-2008, 06:34 PM

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 06:51 PM

Which is exactly what I said, however, it's the apathetic attitudes like yours -- which boils down to laziness, overall... that keeps these problems happening. Romania was facing a genocide and complete economic screw-up -- they brought their leader to justice (look up the execution of President Nicolae Ceauşescu)

Not even a few years ago, up here in Canada, we lost faith in our government and the parliament/govt. was dissolved due to non-confidence (Paul Martin was our leader at the time)

There's countless examples of action on such a large scale... from Musharraff, Sonthi Boonyaratglin, etc...

You are now assuming that I myself have done nothing to try to fix the problem. I have been to many political protest alongside many who want to change the government. I have even discussed some of these issues with local govenors. You have to realize that many Americans aren't willing to give up their lives for a cause when they live so comfortably. The reality is if a person has something to lose, they won't fight. And don't assume I am not educated about the outside world. That is the biggest slap in the face I have recieved on this forum. You take something as general as apathetic people, and you narrow it down to me, and then blame the continuation of America's issues on me? You took the fact that I was agreeing with you for the most part, and used it to attack me. Sorry, but if you automatically assume that someone is ignorant just because they don't agree with you completely, then it just proves your ignorance. I have nothing against you personally, but that was uncalled for:-?

Tony

03-18-2008, 07:04 PM

Those guys who wrote the Constitution were some pretty smart cookies. They realized that most people aren't altruistic, and given enough power, would abuse it. So, they created a system of government where the power was distributed, and gave each branch the power to veto the other branches' decisions. It was quite brilliant, really. On top of that, they vowed not to let government infringe on certain rights of the populace. It was an excellent way to show that government was subject to the people, and not the other way around.

Well, quite a bit has changed in the past 232 years. We've got technologies and issues the founders never even dreamed of, and yet we're still running on their blueprint. It still works. However, there is a problem. In the years following the attack on the WTC, too much power has been pooling in the executive branch of the federal government. There have been cases of the executive acting in secret, violating the laws set by Congress and precedent set by the Supreme Court. People's desire to "do something" about the perceived threat of terrorism has led to both the coercion of the other branches of government, and the forfeiture of rights by the people. In the long run, we'll see how that's cutting off our nose to spite our collective face.

The scary part here is to see just how efficiently the conversation is directed. Everybody's talking about terrorism and terrorists. I just checked the National Threat Advisory. It's at yellow, which means, "Significant Risk of Terrorist Attacks." Terrorism is the monster under the bed, or the boogeyman in the closet. I'm not denying that there are people out there who want to do damage, because there definitely are. I'm saying that by using the blanket term of "terrorism," we both oversimplify and overemphasize the problem at the same time. "Terrorism" is a term that lumps Timothy McVeigh and Mohammed Atta in the same boat. It's a term that give more power to each attacker than they deserve. It paints the picture of some sort of united force coming to attack us. Compare the mortality rate from terrorism to that of car accidents, smoking, and murder. It's when you do that, you get a sense of just how minor the "problem" is.

I had more, but it just gets more ranty from here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I love my country, but I'm scared of what's happening to it.

dominoprincess

03-18-2008, 07:12 PM

Ok, here I go!

Well, Im from Scotland, and have never hated America! Ive been to numerous places in the States and absolutely adored it! Peoples attitudes and vibes were fantastic like 99.9% of the time ^^!

I dont think that we should catagorise people just from what country they are from. I mean, if a Scottish person brutally murdered many people tomorrow, would you think all Scottish people to be evil? I dont think so.

I know many people who have lived in so many different countries and, they have never changed. Its not the country that makes the person, its their personality and how they choose to live thier lives!

I dont want to say a country is responsible for something or that I hate it because I dont want to group everyone who just lives there into that. For me, its about the individuals, not where they come from ^^.

Cheshire

03-18-2008, 07:54 PM

Just tossing in my two cents:

I'm an American, and I love my country. We've got a pretty sweet set up here, really, better than some of our own citizens actually realize, I think, and I'm certainly thankful for it.

However, I can't say I have the same feelings for our government. The people in charge have blatantly abused their power, lied to the people, manipulated votes and voters to keep hold of power, gotten us involved in situations I personally don't feel we should ever have been involved in, and put a majority of its citizens in a permanent state of fear.

I feel like some people are just too willing to accept what's wrong with the way things are and where we're headed and not do anything about it; as Nikkita said, simply acting apathetic. And like Tony said, I love my country, but I'm just more than a little disturbed by what's happening to it and where it's leading us.

And...I feel like I'm going on a completely off-topic tangent here, so I'll just stop before I get any more ranty and end this with a favorite quote of mine:

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."
--Mark Twain

P.S. Thanks for the book recommendations, Nikkita. I'd heard about Lies My Teacher Told Me forever ago and meant to pick it up sometime, but completely forgot about it. On the same note, I'd like to encourage people to read Armed Madhouse and especially TruthOut (http://www.truthout.org/)(excellent source of news both inside and outside the States, with a lot of stories that won't ever see the light of day).

Catoni15

03-18-2008, 08:01 PM

I'm not sure why I'm jumping into this, but, here goes:

People become jaded and apathetic, and overall lazy because why should it matter as long as they are being entertained, and not directly affected?

That is the truth of it--those of us who have what we need and aren't directly affected don't give a damn.

I myself am highly apathetic to my own country. I'm American--born and raised. I've always felt like I should try to muster more patriotism, but...it's just not there. I don't know. My parents are not from America originally and, hell, they're more patriotic than I am. Anyway, I've never paid too much attention to what goes on around me, what happens here. I hate politics, religion, and all that other crap. I don't really involve myself in any of them. I have no religion and I'm not registered to vote--and I don't feel like it's a loss to me. Voting is a right and I choose not to exercise it. And what does it matter, honestly? It's not voting so much for a good person or cause--it's choosing the lesser evil. And, since I don't pay much attention to what goes on, I am no judge of that. I may end up doing unintentional harm, who knows?

In elementary and middle school--when us US students say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning? It was just something I used to do--that thing I committed to memory in my routine like waking up at this time, or going here, or there, etc. It was just that thing I did.

If it came right down to it, if America was utterly destroyed right here and now (and I survived) I wouldn't be terribly upset. Granted, I would be upset at losing a comforable place to live, but I would just pick up my stuff and move on. I'd simply go somewhere else. And if America--right now--found itself in a state of drafting for the army I'd be out of here, fast.

Now that last statement leaves room for cowardice. Don't mistake me: I care about my family (and I would for friends, if I had any close enough to my heart) and would defend them if I found myself in that situation. But this country? No. No way. I'd be hauling ass elsewhere--someplace the government couldn't draft me. I'm not dying for America. I have too much to live for. :)

I don't know--I think I'm the wrong person to speak on this. I lean more towards anti-social and don't get out much. I know I'm really self-absorbed--and you all can say what you want on that. I don't care.

Gah, seriously...there should be a "I'm American/Non-American and I don't really give a damn" option.

That's my two cents on the matter.

Have a nice day.

Teacher_Nine

03-18-2008, 08:20 PM

Well, it's really a damn shame you feel that way... =/ It's kind of like living in a house or an apartment and just letting it fall to hell because "who cares if I clean it, it'll just be a mess again tomorrow"...

Really sad. =/

I feel that this is less of a stance on the issue presented in the poll and more of a "Your personal way of thinking is wrong" post. I have enjoyed reading the debate and don't want to see it fall into something like that, so please try and keep the debate about the topic and not just hating on one person or another. Thanks much.

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 08:25 PM

Oh for the love of... just quit your whining, please... Nobody is blaming you for anyone or anything, but if you want to play victim, then you need to move away from this topic and quit trying to read in to something that doesn't exist in what I am saying. Me, me, me, me, me... seriously... if you think the entire world is blaming YOU for something, just take a step back and realize in the grande scheme of things, nobody knows who the heck you are, and in the end you're just one person on a bloody voice acting forum in a debate about crap that will probably get pushed back to page 2 or 3 in a few days anyway, right along with everyone else in this topic.

Change it, or not, unfortunately it takes more than people talking about what they want to do and going out to do it.

The only thing I disagreed with you on was your silly little thing of "oh there's nothing we can do, just a delusion, la la la" which is ultimately the biggest and lamest excuse given the fact many other countries have successfully done this. However, yes, most people aren't willing to give up their "comfortable lives" (even though I'm willing to bet there's a fair deal more people living uncomfortably than there are living comfortably)... because we're all busy being fed b/s by people who shouldn't be. People become jaded and apathetic, and overall lazy because why should it matter as long as they are being entertained, and not directly affected?

Wow:shock: You completely misinterprteted what I was saying. I am not playing the victim, I am pointing out that using me as an example in your prior post was unnessesary. This is just another pointless arguement based on misunderstandings. Do you realize that we are basically saying the same thing here? For one, I am not saying that their is nothing I can do, I am saying that the government is no longer about the people, but about the interest of the party. That doesn't mean that people can't try to fix the situation. Can't we just admit that we were misunderstanding eachother, and leave it at that?

strikernofear

03-18-2008, 08:33 PM

I don't hate America but i hate its god damn government (hell i hate my own government).
The only thing i truly respect is the constitution.

BigTUnit1

03-18-2008, 08:37 PM

No problem, but I was really aiming more towards you accusing me of targeting only you when I did nothing of the sort ;)

and I still don't meet with you 100% on what you're saying... Yes, we can both agree that the govt. is no longer about serving the people -- however, I just feel that denying any accountability of the people (who, ultimately, have seemingly handed over the power) who should be doing something about it, but aren't is a cop-out excuse. =/

Of course we aren't going to agree on every issue. You are right, as it does take two to tango. of course there is fault on the people, but I am just trying to avoid the inevitable generalities that arise from that kind of statement. I can't make any excuse for the people, and neither do I defend them.

Teacher_Nine

03-18-2008, 09:15 PM

LOL... oh god what the hell ever... Everyone is entitled to their opinion -- if someone doesn't appreciate the country they live in or doesn't give a damn, and expresses it in a public forum, there's going to be someone who will feel the opposite to them -- just as people have expressed as such about my opinions. Perhaps you should be the one to stay on topic instead of trying to discourage any other discussion or opinion? "Thanks much."

Seriously, no need to get all up in arms about it and throw a simple suggestion in kindness back in my face. I was just saying that you could've expressed your opinion without calling someone else or their views (personally) sad. It makes the post feel much more directed at one person rather than at the topic. I had appreciated your stance so far and am interested in reading it. I just didn't see the need to attack someone personally. However as I am not contributing to the topic itself I'm just going to leave it at that. Please continue on...

Teacher_Nine

03-18-2008, 09:45 PM

Who said I was up in arms? I didn't call their opinion OR view sad... I just said it was really sad they felt that way. It's completely possible to accept an opinion and feel a certain way about it without judging them directly for it.

The "Thanks much" made it seem like you were in defensive-mode to me, but then again typing is an imperfect means for communication.
I also wanted to make it clear that the "personal attack" I meantioned before was the feeling I received from the post, not that it was the feeling that you wanted to convey. Since you'd been very clear in not attacking a single person since the beginning of the debate. That's why I had commented, I found it oddly out of character for your (so far) style of debate which I found largely to be very responsible and well thought out.
I also agree that it is completely possible to accept an opinion and feel a certain way about it without judging someone directly. I just felt that it could have been worded better in the post, that's all. I certainly don't mean to attack anyone, nor am I questioning your right to have an opinion or express it.
Hopefully, that helps clarify some of the confusion in the posting between us.

Lunamaria

03-19-2008, 12:20 AM

Someone said something earlier that summed up basically all my feelings about America in one phrase:

I don't like the American government, but I respect the constitution.

mippa

03-19-2008, 01:10 AM

Wow, reading this thread on the entire opposite end of the world has my hair standing on end.

Why can't we do this about another country? Say, China? North Korea? I think both those countries are a lot worse off...;;

Praise God that America has the freedom to voice these opinions--both supportive and critical of it. If we were in one of these said countries, we would be fearing for our lives--or worse--not even be able to fathom the notion of criticizing our country.

I'm not saying that America is the only country, but I heard this quote once, "Find the good in something and praise it!" and I think it applies here.

I am beginning to wonder if it's not that people have a problem with praising America--it's when people ignore the good in other countries and don't pay attention to them? I mean, would you guys be bitching if we were being weebos or whatever you call them and going "OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG JAPAN IS LIEK TEH BEST!!!!!111!11111!!oneone!!" or that way about Canada or England?

Kai-chan

03-19-2008, 01:13 AM

yukie

03-19-2008, 01:39 AM

Well as I've said before, that's because we don't go like, "GO CANADA WHOOOO YAY-UH CANADIANSSSS. LONG LIVE THE QUEEN, MAY MAPLE SYRUP FLOW FOREVER AND LOONIES AND TOONIES DOMINATE OUR CURRENCY", etc. It's different for Japan or England because there's a focus on one culture, their history goes way back and many things come from tradition. For America, since it's a mix of all sorts of cultures, it's more just simply dwelling on nationality and the fact that they're a citizen of America. Others just don't understand this immense joy that apparently all of you have of just simply being part of this FREAKING AWESOME country.

mippa

03-19-2008, 01:47 AM

I understand totally where you are coming from...but joy is joy is joy. The majority of us who do love something aren't saying that other people are lesser because they aren't the same. =3

Kinda like this. I love America. I love love love love loooove America.

Even moreso. I love Texas. I am a very proud Texan. We are young, sure, but we have a fascinating heritage and history that is unique from any other state. I do think Texas is an awesome, wonderful state and I think everyone should visit. But I understand people's love for New York (though if I get a certain someone telling me one more time to move there, I will take my 20 gauge and aim between the legs) and California--or Florida (who couldn't love Florida you crazies?!) or in my case (and I believe Masako's) I loooooove Vancouver, B.C..

Gah. I went off on a tangent. What I am saying is, if someone is happy, who are we to fault them and bring them down. It's so much more common to be negative these days--be it about your country or family or living situation or whatever--what business to we have to take someone's happiness and tell them to shove it?

It's like someone coming to me going "OMGOMGOMGOMG MIPPA I GOT THE PART IN THIS ANIME YAAAAY!" and I say to them "Yeah, well, that producer is a jerk, so you shouldn't be so happy about it."

I dunno about you, but I would deserve a smack for raining on someone's parade like that.

yukie

03-19-2008, 01:54 AM

To be honest, I wasn't bringing it down until you guys started making a huge fuss about it here. I think I've developed more than just annoyance for overly patriotic Americans just by reading this thread.

I love Vancouver, BC too, that's my hometown. But regional competition and obsession just doesn't really happen here (I'm in Montreal, QC right now), so it's just a different concept for us, and so much of it going on in America is mind-blowing for other people. I lived in Hong Kong before I came to Canada and I don't really have like super duper "HONG KONG PRIDE WHOOO v(^___^)v "; I can relate on loving your own country since I think Canada's a great country, I love it here, it's just that we don't have that kind of nationalistic obsession. And I just think it's annoying. Nothing wrong with that either, people get annoyed when people talk about Naruto or Suzumiya Haruhi or whatever all the time too. That's just the way it is.

mippa

03-19-2008, 02:08 AM

I can totally understand that (whoo I sound like a broken record), the difference between comparing Naruto fanatics and patriotic Americans is that being an American is an identity--whereas being a Naruto fan is (usually...;;;; ) just a hobby. So it's important to be sensitive to that when expressing your distaste for that sort of behavior. Especially in these days and times.

Mochan

03-19-2008, 02:48 AM

Yukie, you said it perfectly, it's just a totally different perspective. That's all it is. We must not bash America because they love their country, but instead, try to understand why they're all so proud of their country. If anybody has taken an anthropology class, they know exactly what I'm talking about. Even if you haven't, though, you should have the common courtesy (just like mippa has said) about not bashing people for their love of something. To try to understand and at least say, "Ok, I don't get it, but whatever. To each their own."

I have a friend that reeeeeeeeally loves to organize. I don't. But I don't bash her and say she's stupid for organizing, I think it's awesome. It's the same concept. And you know, if you don't like something, that's totally fine. We're just saying not to bring people down about something they care about.

It's all in a matter of perspective. Canadians don't need to express their pride for their country, it's just well known. But for America, we obviously do need to express it, probably because we are so young. It's just different cultures, different places, different experiences and we must all try to understand and realize that we're all very, very different.

BigTUnit1

03-19-2008, 02:52 AM

I'm glad this discussion moved from a fight to something we can all agree on:D

Hikuro

03-19-2008, 03:46 AM

Honestly if anyone is dead serious about hating america and is an american needs to move to mexico or some third world country and tell me what they think is so special there.

yukie

03-19-2008, 04:03 AM

Honestly if anyone is dead serious about hating america and is an american needs to move to mexico or some third world country and tell me what they think is so special there.

Woah, woah. What?

mippa

03-19-2008, 04:26 AM

Okay, that was a little inflammatory (after I was working so hard to calm things down. ;A; )

Now while I think people who live in America and complain about it all the time should broaden their horizons and live in a foreign country before spouting off, that manner of speaking is a bit extreme.

yukie

03-19-2008, 04:35 AM

I really hope that was just some brainless, whim-of-the-moment post.

mippa

03-19-2008, 04:38 AM

It would probably be best to ignore those things, yukie. Better not to pour gasoline on the fire. We don't have to make everything a huge issue, especially when the majority of us can call "bullshit" when we see it.

Mochan

03-19-2008, 04:47 AM

I call shenanigans.

Hane Moon

03-19-2008, 04:56 AM

Which is a much more fun and less vulgar word. :3 I salute thee. ::Salutes.::

Hikuro

03-19-2008, 06:23 AM

No really I meant what I said. if someone hates being an american so much why don't they just go live somewhere else? Give us who enjoy being an american and what it stands for a break.

I spent now 23 minutes adding and deleting what I wanna say, but it just isn't worth it.

Okay phew calmed down a little bit.

Yes, OUR government has gone out of control, being practical sell outs to big corperations and anything that has to do with money or something that can help in securing their needs for the rest of their lives.

This system was suppose to work for the people and we were to elect those who would use our voices to make change and help make our country better....but maybe over the last decade or so it's really crumbled down and fucked up.

If we actually tried, we could kick each and every one of those messed up politicans out of office and start a new....but many americans have grown soft and lazy....they speak up but they don't follow. Sometimes it makes me sick, but I still believe in my teachings of what it is to be american and I voice out and follow thru. If I hate something or don't agree with it, I say something until I'm pretty much poking my finger at someones chest to tell them to shut up.

mippa

03-19-2008, 06:29 AM

That is a very arrogant and insensitive way to word things. First off:

1. Some people cannot afford to leave America.

2. Some people don't know any better.

3. People living in America have the right to feel that way, even if we disagree with them.

While I understand your point--your message is totally lost in your manner (or lack thereof).

edit: Okay, you calmed down a bit, that's good.

But I still disagree with your manner of things. The entire problem with American politics is that people refuse to discuss things in a non-violent manner. Everyone thinks that their opinion deserves to be heard, and that their opinion is the right one. They refuse to be open-minded about other people's opinions, and fail to be considerate of other people as well.

We are perfectly capable of disagreeing without resorting to flared tempers and harsh words. Telling people to "shut up" is not the way to persuade them to your side.

Shintarou Inuzuka

03-19-2008, 06:30 AM

Every country has its problems. There are no exceptions; no country is perfect any more than any human being is perfect.

That said, I like America. I don't think that other countries are inferior to or superior to America. Different does not equate to superiority or inferiority. There are ASPECTS (such as many of the rights we take for granted) that are better here than in other parts of the world, but I find it annoying when people get overly patriotic about their country, no matter whether it's America or anywhere else. Besides, with this being the Internet age, there's more of a global aspect, and really, we should be getting closer together, not trying to see whose country is better. All the overly patriotic, "my country is better than yours" types of people do with that attitude is both annoy people from other countries and make all people in that country look bad.

That said, though, people who do live in America who have a grievance should by all means speak out in a peaceful manner; it's not only our Constitutional right, but our duty. However, those who do live here and hate America as a country should at the very least count themselves lucky that they have the right to feel that way and to speak out against America. Try that in the Middle East and you'd be executed. However, it's all right to be pissed off at the government and the president, and any grievances you have should be denounced, just as long as it's done in a mature and nonviolent manner.

However, I also believe that it is unfair to judge all Americans based on the actions of a single person or a few people, no matter how powerful that person is/those people are. Judging all Americans because of "what Bush did" or something like that is just as bad as judging all Muslims/Middle Eastern people as terrorists because of "what al-Qaeda did." Also, no, I don't believe that all people from that area are terrorists; such blanket statements are ignorant, and that applies to blanket statements about "all Americans" as well.

People have the right to feel however they want about their country -- but for their own sake they should use common sense, because while they have the right to think that way and act out how they feel as long as it doesn't break any laws (or other standards that the situation sets, such as a school setting), others have the right to think of those people as idiots for their actions and even act out their disdain as long as it's within the laws and the standards the situation presents.

That said, I do appreciate the freedoms that I as an American have and all the work that America has done to gain those freedoms, but I derive no sense of superiority from my birthplace.

yukie

03-19-2008, 06:33 AM

Sometimes it makes me sick, but I still believe in my teachings of what it is to be american and I voice out and follow thru. If I hate something or don't agree with it, I say something until I'm pretty much poking my finger at someones chest to tell them to shut up.

How do you come up with these "teachings"? And how does it supposedly benefit the country, because I doubt shoving your opinions down your fellow citizens' throats would make a positive impact.

mippa

03-19-2008, 06:36 AM

That said, I do appreciate the freedoms that I as an American have and all the work that America has done to gain those freedoms, but I derive no sense of superiority from my birthplace.

Quoted for truth. This is America, my friends. The fact that you can be whatever you want to be. Your birth and your circumstance mean nothing, because all men are created equal.

Anyone who thinks that we're superior simply because we are born here fail to comprehend what true American philosophy is.

Hane Moon

03-19-2008, 06:40 AM

... because I doubt shoving your opinions down your fellow citizens' throats would make a positive impact.

I got into a huge argument with someone that lasted from mid-November to late January because she kept shoving her views down my throat. I kept saying "Okay, I respect your opinion, we need to just agree to disagree", but she kept on going like the Energizer bunny. You're very right, it DOESN'T make a positive impact. In fact, it got me to resent Religion a little bit for a short while. (Which was quite a feat, lemme tell ya.)

Thaaaaat was slightly off-topic. Ignore me. Clean cup, move down! (Hate that movie, but I'm trying to add a touch of comedy relief to this thread. ^_^;;)

Celira

03-19-2008, 06:48 AM

I call shenanigans.

No fair (http://voiceactingalliance.com/board/showpost.php?p=571679&postcount=56). D:

I think it's fair and safe to say, though, that by this point none of us should be coming into this thread with any preconception of having the high ground, because this has long since gotten down and dirty. Perhaps swallow your pride and open your ears before you open your mouths? It's a thought. kthxbai bbqsauce.

Mochan

03-19-2008, 06:55 AM

No fair (http://voiceactingalliance.com/board/showpost.php?p=571679&postcount=56). D:

Bwahahahaha!

If we both declare shenanigans, then it must be right.

Or something.

Anyway, it's pretty difficult to have any sort of coherent conversation or debate over the internetz.

mippa

03-19-2008, 06:59 AM

Or keep any peace, for that matter. Here goes second attempt!

Hane Moon

03-19-2008, 07:02 AM

Go Mippa, go! ::Cheers and tips over.:: You be the Peacemaker, I'll be he comedy relief! ::Puts on funky glasses with the giant nose and moustache attached....Do those things have a name?:::

Lunamaria

03-19-2008, 04:42 PM

O: It seems a little safe now...

Loving America is an identity and something deep. Some people may not know why we love it, or are annoyed by it, and even hate us for it; but, then, we could flip it around and say: Why don't you love your country as much as we love ours? But that isn't right. It's as wrong as saying: Why do you love your country so much? So, it's all in perspective. It's just a grin-and-bear-it situation. Everyone has just as much right to hate America as they do to love it (one of the reasons I love this country so much), so, being annoyed by it, trying to get us to understand why you're annoyed, etc, won't do much in the end.

The golden phrase applies here: to each his or her own.

Oh, btw.

I love you Mippa!

Go Mippa, go! ::Cheers and tips over.:: You be the Peacemaker, I'll be he comedy relief! ::Puts on funky glasses with the giant nose and moustache attached....Do those things have a name?:::

Yes: The Funky Glasses with the Giant Nose and Moustache Attatched Glasses.

Lunamaria

03-19-2008, 07:46 PM

Rabids Squirrel

03-20-2008, 05:10 PM

*facepalm*

...only you missed the mark completely in that nobody is hating you for loving your country, it's more along the lines of "we hate the fact you're celebrating our destruction" -- how did you feel on 9/11? Now, imagine what these people are going through every day and have been for years...

Yes, it's all well and good to love your country -- but also know there are other people who also love their country -- some of those countries your country happens to be bringing to a chaotic mess, and pulling out from under their feet and basically telling them they're wrong, wrong, wrong... coming from a country that is technically far from perfect... how else are they supposed to feel?

Now, forgive me for not posting in my own thread. Seems I've spanned somwhat of a big one (Thirteen Pages in the past 2 days!)

But, in any case, you must remember that, right now, The United States is considered in World Power right now. While I don't agree with EVERYTHING we step in on, I beileve that a good amount of it is justified and actually contributes.

I actually had a freind who was angry that we went after Saddam. She claimed that it wasn't America's buisness and that he was doing nothing wrong. Well, it may have been what his people were used too, but I'm pretty sure a good amount of the world frowns on public executions at their Soccor Games.

Now, this doesn't go without saying that yes, we do step in at times where...well, we're unwanted. But what would happen if we didn't? Sure, we have our rageing citizens back here protesting the war as if it were a preventable plauge of ebola virus, but not ever protest against what America does can be justified.

Do I believe that America needs to occupy a major percentage of the world?

No

In a time of crysis, do I beileve this?

Yes.

Right now, we're still in a war. Any Ally of the United States is up for game. Though, I'd like to know where America is right now that they aren't doing any good, because I may have missed that.

Mochan

03-20-2008, 06:43 PM

I really have to agree with Nikkita here. The government has basically told us what to believe and doesn't give us any other options. Thus creating our ignorance, except for those who like to step away and realize that our government is not all powerful and all knowing and all right.

Celira

03-20-2008, 06:47 PM

What Nikkita and Mochan said. The perpetual comment, rephrased and applied to this entire shebang in general: Assume you don't know everything about a situation-- look at something from a few different viewpoints (or even better, as many as possible), take several different opinions in...don't comment on someone else's shoes unless you've attempted to figure out what it's like to walk in them, eh? With any issues involving more than one country or, hell, simply more than one person other than yourself, it's a good idea to approach things with a-- *sigh* again, with an open mind and a good dose of humility.

-drags soapbox away-

fthrll

03-20-2008, 07:08 PM

No system of voting is possible to reflect everybody's opinion. Under democratic, free systems it's possible for a government to get in on a minority vote if opposing votes are split. So it's not logical to hate a whole country - when their representatives can't ever represent all of the people's opinions.
It is possible, though, to disagree with the policies of a particular regime or government.

As Nikkita said, there is a long and complex history to countries' relationships and naturally it's in all politicians' interests to make themselves sound like total goodies and the opposition to sound like total baddies. Terrorist and freedom fighter just depend on what side of the fence you're on and people are people with the same hopes and fears and feelings all over the world.

Leaving aside all the politics, all the national identities etc, if you're a normal person trying to live a normal life in your own country and that's made difficult or hellish either by your own government being one you disagree with or hate, or by war with whoever, then you're going to feel the same emotions the world over. So it's important, as Nikkita and Mochan and Celira said, to try to picture every situation from every side as an average citizen without the kind of control that a government has to fully understand what's going on. So, no I wouldn't ever hate any country for the way their leaders behave. Ahem, rant over... :)

Rabids Squirrel

03-23-2008, 08:27 PM

Nikkita: I'm sorry for being a tad ignorant. I base all of my beilefs and claims off of my or others experiances. In which case, when it comes to whats happening over seas, I rely on what the Missionaries from my church tell, and my relative and freinds who are over there fighting.

While I don't have the time on my hands to restate myself in a different aspect, I will have to say that I don't trust any book like "Lies my teacher told me" completely , sorely because anything written does come from a bias point of veiw. Whether you beileved it or not, whatever you did beileve will be emphasized and whatever you thought may not be true will be down played, leaving the final point to be one mildly manipulated.

I'm sorry if what I say right now is a bit clouded and difficult to understand, but four hours of sleep and wearing and Easter Bunny costume for a few hours will do that to you ;P

Snowspot

03-23-2008, 08:37 PM

Loving America just because it's America is bs.

Nationalism is something that eventually destroys countries. America is like any other country, it is just lucky to be be based on the constitution. I don't think an American citizen is better than any other person. Can someone explain what is so great about America though? Our entire government is corrupt, our economy is tanking, the media is out of control, we invaded a country we had no right to...

Wtf does america do that gives you this opinion? What made America so great was that we had laws to protect the people from losing their rights ... but most of those are gone now because of post 911 laws and people like the TC. People that refuse to question or doubt what America is doing, who we are invading or who is dying because of us.

Here's an idea.. do some research on why people dislike America... then you won't have to make crap polls like this.

yukie

03-23-2008, 09:11 PM

Wow, that's a bit harsh.

Seissha

03-23-2008, 09:16 PM

Personally, I think we need to be more appreciative then hating. Whether it's America, France, or Iraq, good and bad things come out of everything. Nobody gets their way all the time and people complain. People take this war as an example that we stick our noses and places we shouldn't. Though this is true, there has been a number of incidents where other countries have done it without grace. Though I'm not saying we are graceful ourselves, we felt obligated to find who did it. Of course, not everyone wanted such a thing, but too many people in government are cowards. Many of the democrats backed up President Bush when he issued to make a war with the Middle East and then just saying a couple of years after the factor " Yeah, I was against it the whole time." Therefore, making people like them just as hypocritical.

As for hating America as a whole, that's ridiculous and so self-centered. It's a fashion to hate America apparently, but it's the same way of us hating communists and Venezuala's president because he claims to be democratic, but is acting more of a dictator where oil prices are at his beck and call and ours isn't. Too many people say it's the president who controls these oil revenues, but it's not true. We have private business that does that. The ONLY time the government can intervene is if it becomes a bad monopoly. Lately, there has been a shortage since as Americans we are supposed to give up things for the soldiers who are fighting in Iraq and such, but too many people say they wouldn't do that because they are against it. Okay, be against the war, but not the soldiers. Just as we depend on them to protect us in a time of need, we should do our fair share. People are all for peace and love, but sorry to break it to you all but Earth is not a Utopia where people frolick in the green meadows hand-in-hand.

And if people research their history, America has tried to stay out of the World Wars unless threatened. They have actually been yelled at for not going into war sooner sometimes. And if you haven't noticed, when there is a time of need who do they call? No, not the Ghost Busters. But that's a good guess though. :)

Don't get me wrong. I don't always believe that war is the greatest thing in the world, but something was to happen sooner or later and you can't change what has already happened. Our world is imperfect after all. If it was, then it would be like those Walgreen commercials.

"A place called perfect"

Sadly, it is not.

Snowspot

03-24-2008, 12:01 AM

The reason a lot of people hate America is because of Americans ignorance as to why they are hated. Mostly... because our education system has become so bad.. and our entire culture is now focused on 'pop' culture. Our nation is mostly made up of opinionated couch potatoes that think they know more than someone else because they have a "feeling"... and if they "feel" hard enough maybe it will make them right.

I don't think it's justified to hate Americans... but I can understand hating what America stands for right now. We don't look particularly good to other nations... mostly because of Bush.. and dear god if Mccain is elected... a guy who was tortured now supporting torture... that pretty much says it all about that party and who they nominate -_- Can you imagine traditional republicans, people who fought in the war... actually supporting a guy who endorses torture(not even mentioning torture has been proven ineffective in actually getting real fact)?

Crazy times

Jasmine

03-24-2008, 12:17 AM

Who would hate a continent that has humans like me living their lives as normal?
The people to be hated are those narrow minded people who hate other countries for what it did where it was just a group of people who did it; ministers, prime ministers, government etc.

Why can't politicians go in a ring and fight alone without dragging the whole population down with it?

Right now America's reputation lies on it's policians.

Seissha

03-24-2008, 12:35 AM

You said exactly what's on my mind JRocker. Politicians are what seem to be peoples man concern to hate America. They are SUPPOSED to represent the USA. Like if someone came from Russia, they are SUPPOSED to be Pro-commies, but everyone knows that's not true. People make assumptions without coming here and it totally sucks.

I think the only people that actually love America are Asians. ^^; Not because of its politics but because of it's hugeness and Disneyland xD

People don't even bother about the whole "bad educational system". They look at our leaders and think "Oh my god! They all love war!" or " They must all be dumbasses because they have nothing else better to do then pick on everyone!" Give me a country that DOESN'T pick on anyone or hasn't picked on anyone? Hmm? Someone had some part in history! Good and bad. We were hated from the beginning, but also were idols for revolutions. We are just one of those countries you love to hate. And actually, do to the attention, I possibly might say I love it. Hate us more. It gives us more reason to ignore everyone and do what we did in the 20's. Become isolated and piss everyone else off because we refused offers. D:

ZE END!

Matt Cruea

03-24-2008, 01:55 AM

You ignorant, racist, pinko commies! To think that anyone would hate America is fallacy. America is to the world as the heart is to the human body. Were it not for America, there would be no awesome wars, thus no awesome movies or bombs and stuff. Sure, I guess some people have died, but they were not even Americans, so they didn't count!

If someone in ooooooh Great Britain were to, say, ruin the educational system of their country, it'd be okay, because the world expects the English to be an idiotic people. If someone in America, Jr. (Canada) were to, say, have an unjust judicial system, it'd be fine because we're so used to Canada being full of backwards customs and, again, idiotic people.

But oh no, if this happens in America, the entire country should burn to the ground! Yessir, says the Prime Minister (by the way, Presidents are way cooler than sissy Prime Ministers), string up the US by it's haunches and tan it's hide, olde chap! I say that is wrong because America is awesome.

Hamburgers? America invented it.
Electricity? America made that shit, too.
The wheel? Probably cavemen in America.

I'm for serious here, America rules and if you're not down with that, then America will come to your town, turn you sideways, and turn you into more America. It's what we do, baby. It's called Manifest Destiny, you bunch of stupids. We run the world because it's meant to be, man.

So I would not be saying bad things about America because it is the awesomest. Whatcha gonna do, foreigners, when America runs wild on you, brother?

Celira

03-24-2008, 03:30 AM

Give it up for Matt Cruea, everyone. He'll be here when you're beggin' for a snark.

Seissha

03-24-2008, 05:02 AM

He's my hero.

He gave me hope.

Hikuro

03-24-2008, 06:03 AM

Matt Cruea for 08 president :P

ig.

03-24-2008, 07:26 AM

Hamburgers? America invented it.
Electricity? America made that shit, too.
The wheel? Probably cavemen in America.

Actually-er, never mind. Woo for The Extended Former Colonies of the Former Sovereignty of Great Britain, I guess.

Matt Cruea

03-24-2008, 03:05 PM

Actually-er, never mind. Woo for The Extended Former Colonies of the Former Sovereignty of Great Britain, I guess.

You can't correct me because as an American, I am always right.

Signed,
EMatticator, The Matt of Tomorrow, Bitches

Shintarou Inuzuka

03-24-2008, 11:39 PM

You can't correct me because as an American, I am always right.

Signed,
EMatticator, The Matt of Tomorrow, Bitches
I have only one thing to say about that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/KenichiBokushi/Banditkeith-1.jpg

Jasmine

03-24-2008, 11:49 PM

I have only one thing to say about that.

LOL. Just. Lol

BigTUnit1

03-24-2008, 11:50 PM

If Matt Cruea had to fight a hurricane driven by Hitler, Matt would win, and in turn, America wins. I would vote for you to be president, but only if Megatron were to run as your VP.:D
(Cruea Megatron 08= best bumper sticker ever!)

ig.

03-25-2008, 04:58 AM

In the early 13th Century Americans invented telepathy, and are therefore responsible for all inventions made during the end of the Late Bronze Age, the Dark Ages, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Age of Imperialism, the Industrial Age, the Information Age, and the upcoming Age of the Undead Apocalypse.

Whew.

Antfish

04-02-2008, 01:00 AM

when ever i hear all this stuff about people hating america and stuff, like america is stupid and shit like that, i think to myself, is it america that other people hate, or is it the president, cause people see the president and instiantly associate him as how all americans are, once Obama or Clinton (or makane) win, people views might change

Russ

04-02-2008, 12:21 PM

Almost everyone in america thinks arabs are terrorists.... how do you think we feel?

[snip]
Not only that but almost everyone in the USA thinks muslims are terrorist... i mean cmon! iam a muslim...do you see me KILLING people around the country?I read a good deal of news sources and commentary from all over the political spectrum, and I can assure you that this is definitely not the case. The most I hear not that "all Arabs/Muslims are terrorists" but that the vast majority of terrorists are Arabs/Muslims. Do you see the difference? One of the managers in my office is Muslim - I have no more reason to expect him to kill anyone than anyone else I know.

Plus do you know september 11, when there was a 'terrorist' attack on the 2 towers... well guess what... BUSH planned it all along... it werent muslim terrorist as Bush made the media say...Um, where do you get your information? That is simply not the case, although I had heard that it was a popular rumor in some circles.

strikernofear

04-02-2008, 06:26 PM

There are many things that can make a country the subject of hatred.
I came up with four.
Government, media, events and action.

Originally Posted by narutofied http://voiceactingalliance.com/board/vaanew/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://voiceactingalliance.com/board/showthread.php?p=571764#post571764)
Plus do you know september 11, when there was a 'terrorist' attack on the 2 towers... well guess what... BUSH planned it all along... it werent muslim terrorist as Bush made the media say...

Originally Posted by Russ
Um, where do you get your information? That is simply not the case, although I had heard that it was a popular rumor in some circles.

Unfortunatly Russ, there's alot of evidence that points toward government action.
But you don't have to believe me, you can find those evidence yourself if your willing search for them.

Russ

04-02-2008, 06:52 PM

Unfortunatly Russ, there's alot of evidence that points toward government action.
But you don't have to believe me, you can find those evidence yourself if your willing search for them.I don't believe you, but I know that if I search I can find a lot of conspiracy sites that will claim it is so. They are as credible as though who say that Elvis is still alive, that the Queen of England runs the world's banks, and that JFK was murdered by the CIA.

If you think you have a real credible source, why don't you show me?

Mochan

04-02-2008, 08:47 PM

It has been said that intelligence knew about the impending threat of 9/11 and yet we did nothing to stop it.

Shintarou Inuzuka

04-03-2008, 02:50 AM

It's possible that the government knew but didn't do anything about it (which is what I heard; I forgot the source, but I saw something on the news about it); it's possible it was not known (which I doubt); it's possible it was even set up ...

... but try telling that to those who lost a loved one in those attacks. See how much of a difference it makes. Either way, someone dropped the ball and made some incredibly boneheaded mistakes, and their loved ones are dead. The government really dropped the ball on this one, and innocent people died because of their error.

On a sorta related note, Ann Coulter is a complete and total bitch for what she said about 9/11 widows -- that and pretty much everything else she's ever said in her life. There's a special place in hell for people like her. Attack those responsible for dropping the ball if you have to attack someone, NOT people who lost someone important to them! Maybe she should lose someone important to her and then be badmouthed for mourning their deaths, see how she likes it. There, I said it.

I actually remember a few years ago talking with one of my Japanese friends about how the Japanese in general feel about America. What he said is that most Japanese like America and Americans -- but HATE the American government.

That's something I think the Japanese public, the American public and much of the rest of the world have in common. What do we pay these guys to do, anyway?

Russ

04-03-2008, 03:42 AM

What they found in the investigations was that all of the pieces of the puzzle were available, but different parts of the government knew different pieces - and rules put in place by a previous administration had forbidden them to share their information, so nobody actually recognized that an attack like this might happen.

Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence.

Russ

04-03-2008, 04:33 AM

Incompetence isn't an excuse, and it's still a bunch of bullshit. Yes, because obviously a previous administration is going to prevent an atrocity from happening...Not what I said. I said that a previous administration had erected walls between agencies which forbade them from sharing information - and that had they been able to do so, they might have recognized a pattern which would have allowed them to anticipate the 9/11 attacks. Or possibly not. The Brits certainly didn't anticipate the 7/7 subway bombings and the 3/11 bombings happened without the Spanish catching on - and both occurred after the world should have been ready.

But of course, that's just factual. It must be so much fun simply to imagine that an administration would allow thousands of its citizens to die so that it could torpedo its own image.

strikernofear

04-03-2008, 06:24 AM

During July 07 2005, Visor Consultants were running drills and a simulation of a subway bombings. Peter Power, a former spokeperson for Scotland Yard, conducted terror drill exercise on the morning.

07/07/07, Peter Power was interviewed on ITN News.
Peter said that both the tragic event and the terror drill exercise he conducted had very similar scenario.
He repeated himself on BBC Radio Five.

Coincidence?
You decide.

strikernofear

04-04-2008, 05:03 AM

COUNTDOWN: Olbermann interviews Jon Soltz about the war in Iraq. But first we get to see Bush latest speech on the subject and for those who always wanted to ask Cheney if he cares about what the American people think about the war in Iraq... will finally get their answers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISEr1zVHPJ0

This is why the world hates the American's government.

We have a president who dare to say that he's above the law (not in this video) and a vice-president who doesn't give a s*** of what the American people think.

He as to care about what the people think no matter how much he hates it.
It's his job.
The government is here for us and not the other way around.

The True meaning of an Anti-American is someone who dare to betray it, to attack it, to change it behind peoples back, to silence it, to take away the rights and freedom of the people given to them by the Constitution.
Someone who does that his an Anti-American.
Two federal Judges and many American people believe that the USA Patriot Act is unconstitutional.
In other words, they believe that the USA Patriot Act is anti-American.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qujCIGplnyk

In the beginning of the constitution, it says: "We The People". Not we the government.

Look! No matter which side we take, we have to remember these words: look, listen, search, share, discuss, and question.
they maybe lame but those words could save the country one day.
I'm sure they did before.

iHigh

04-05-2008, 12:01 PM

as much as America may be real fucked up... seriously, we have it good compared to other countries. Yes we may be currupt, but id rather be currupt then not have the oppurtunity to do something and become someone.

if America was 3rd World, none of us would even be talking on this forum now... or atleast ones from America... If you want something to hate...

HATE BUSH!! :evil:

Kuro

04-10-2008, 04:50 PM

Simple, because I was here first.

Tom

04-11-2008, 07:10 AM

Sometimes, I hate Americans. A lot of times, I hate our politicians. But, I could never hate America itself; I am a happy citizen.

No country is perfect. Every political system has its plus sides and its down sides; it's all in the balance!

Oh, I hate Ann Coulter. Only America could produce an Ann Coulter. SOMEBODY PLEASE STAB HER IN THE EAR.

ClymAngus

04-11-2008, 05:35 PM

Praise be to Mohammed (peace be upon him) Truely it can be said I live for moments like this. Yehaw, and kick the can with the grenade under it (OLD vietnam trick, doesn't matter.)

If someone in ooooooh Great Britain were to, say, ruin the educational system of their country, it'd be okay, because the world expects the English to be an idiotic people.

Hey, at least they don't shoot each other as soon as they get in the front door of the school. Actually no I'm wrong, less people to educate because you've killed some off = large financial saving which can be spent on, oh let me think now, maybe another oil war?

If someone in America, Jr. (Canada) were to, say, have an unjust judicial system, it'd be fine because we're so used to Canada being full of backwards customs and, again, idiotic people.

Yes, backwards customs like painting your white house, white. Oh sorry the Canadians "painted" it black didn't they? You painted it white to save face.

But oh no, if this happens in America, the entire country should burn to the ground! Yessir, says the Prime Minister (by the way, Presidents are way cooler than sissy Prime Ministers), string up the US by it's haunches and tan it's hide, olde chap! I say that is wrong because America is awesome.

Hey, do what you will in your own country. We'll just watch. :). Oh no sorry you won't do what you want, not now your government has scared you into giving up a healthy chunk of your human rights.

Hamburgers? America invented it.
Electricity? America made that shit, too.
The wheel? Probably cavemen in America.

Don't forget the credit crisis that's forclosing on ENTIRE towns! The US made that one too. It's a good thing the Far East and EU can take up some of the economic slack else you could have brought the entire planet to it's knees.

I'm for serious here, America rules and if you're not down with that, then America will come to your town, turn you sideways, and turn you into more America. It's what we do, baby. It's called Manifest Destiny,

Well technically no, what you do is invade a country then spend the next few years having your young sons and daughters of poor working class families sent home in body bags because you can't fight a gerrilla war worth s**t. So you do what any nation in your position would do. Develop a cancerously cheap cultural media exports. The rich get richer the poor get dead.

you bunch of stupids. We run the world because it's meant to be, man.

Maybe you should explain that using really small terms to the people handling your rapidly deflating currency.

So I would not be saying bad things about America because it is the awesomest. Whatcha gonna do, foreigners, when America runs wild on you, brother?

I'm going to do what I always do Matt, watch the floor show. Knucklehead.

(to everyone other than Matt) You are seen a brash people, people who see themselves as knowing best in any given situation. I personally see this in another light, as superior self confidence that carries you through time of trouble. This unshakable belief in yourselves, a need to carry your light into every corner of the world, is misintepeted by many people around the world as interference. Still, your hearts in the right place it's just the modus operandi that sells you short.

Also I find the nature of this poll polorised. It needs about 5 more shades of gray in it. Not every like dislike poll has to turn into a line in the sand you know.

ig.

04-12-2008, 06:08 AM

You are seen a brash people, people who see themselves as knowing best in any given situation. I personally see this in another light, as superior self confidence that carries you through time of trouble. This unshakable belief in yourselves, a need to carry your light into every corner of the world, is misintepeted by many people around the world as interference. Still, your hearts in the right place it's just the modus operandi that sells you short.

Aw, don't sell yourself too short - after all, everything we learned about imperialism we learned from the best!

Oh, wait:whoops:

Kuro

04-12-2008, 07:59 AM

Oh, I hate Ann Coulter. Only America could produce an Ann Coulter. SOMEBODY PLEASE STAB HER IN THE EAR.

Oh I would do Ann Coulter FULL FORCE.

ClymAngus

04-16-2008, 04:22 PM

Aw, don't sell yourself too short - after all, everything we learned about imperialism we learned from the best!

Oh, wait:whoops:

Yeah, didn't work then and it's as sure as hell isn't working now. Still, I think your missing a trick. You identify the two most militant factions, give one group the land where the other groups religous sites are sited and vica versa. As civil war errupts withdraw... gracefully. I blame the accents personally. You like the accent, you see us doing stuff, you eventually join in. Cultural Imperialism, World War II, assainating social visionaries, the list goes on. Hell we even helped you along with the last one, we couldn't wait to get rid of John Lennon, you saved us the bother, thanks!

Imagine all the people, rightfully bearing arms....
You know most countries repeal laws put in place during times of civil war, social upheaval or wider exploration in a hostile enviroment. As a result of not doing so:

UK: We have the god given right to drive cattle down Whitehall. But no one does because it's a bit pointless.
US: We have the god given right to own tools specifically designed for no other reason than to kill things as effectively and quickly as possible. And we excersie that right daily, even though it's a bit pointless.

Teacher_Nine

04-16-2008, 08:54 PM

You identify the two most militant factions, give one group the land where the other groups religous sites are sited and vica versa. As civil war errupts withdraw... gracefully. I blame the accents personally. You like the accent, you see us doing stuff, you eventually join in. Cultural Imperialism, World War II, assainating social visionaries, the list goes on. Hell we even helped you along with the last one, we couldn't wait to get rid of John Lennon, you saved us the bother, thanks!

ig, I had no idea that YOU were doing such things! Assainating social visionaries and all. YOU should be ashamed.

Kuro

04-16-2008, 10:53 PM

How very obtuse.

BITCH AINT A TRIANGLE!?

Teacher_Nine

04-17-2008, 01:42 AM

Density, from most dense to least dense.
1. Teachernine
2. Lead

Teh_Geek

04-17-2008, 05:29 AM

I'm somewhere in between the first two options. I am happy to live in a place where different people of all types can live freely with one another, however, I think our legal system has some serious flaws (democracy as a whole is a great thing, but the Electoral College and some other things should be sorted out.), and I am opposed to our current president-- which SHOULD be fixed soon. :]

All in all, I am happy to live in a place where people are as free as can be in this age, however, America is also *FAR* from perfect and I definitely recognize that fact. ;)

ig.

04-17-2008, 05:56 AM

Mark Davig Chapman, anyone? No?

Too soon? Bleh.

EDIT: And I suppose I'll concede that the administration of my country has been leading the global community in a social, sprirtual, and economic spiral to an eventual demense of Year Zero (http://exhibit24.net/) proprotions. But come on - get out your world history books and look to the chapter where U.S. intervention hasn't fucked everything up. Pretty slim pickings, isn't it? :b

EDIT EDIT: That's right, I'm saying we export world destabilization. What up wit it

EDIT EDIT EDIT: Cows are neat animals

ClymAngus

04-20-2008, 10:40 AM

Well you are packing a lot into a very short time. How old is the US now? 220 years old?

In that time you've packed a civil war, two world wars, a cold war and several ideological and material wars, civil rights movement and a shed load of other stuff. Most of that was in the last 100 years. That kind of high living would crash most countries.

Hell no body likes being told what to do especially by such a young country. Sure you've got space and a frightening industrial capacity (which the UK utilized and it cost the empire and we've only just finished paying off the debt for) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4970720.stm

The Germans are still paying you by the way and will keep doing so until 2010.

The US is seen by many countries (and I'm not saying this is intentional) as one that can and has turned a war into a venture capital exercise. Quite frankly it makes a lot of people nervous, especially when said country has a "rolling war" going on. I think this is the first time in human history that a country has declared war on the instigation of an emotional state, whilst your government uses the same state to hold it's own population in check.

To quote a liberal bumper sticker recently seen in the US; "We're making enemies faster than we can kill them."

ig.

04-20-2008, 08:55 PM

Do what I do and blame this all on your past squabbles with the French. The War of American Independence was simply a "venture capital" war to subsidize trade to the New World, anyhow. It just had REALLY good PR.

Man, you have NO idea how many so-called "patriotic" Americans don't want to believe that particular incovenient truth...

ClymAngus

04-21-2008, 12:18 PM

Well, French, Dutch or Spanish take you pick really. Most if it was based more on faith than nationality as far as I can see. Sure, I'll be the first to put my hands in the air and confess we've done our fair share of planet enslavement, for cash, land, materials and slaves.

And look where it got us? When all the corrupt business comes crashing down the economy novas. Worst of all, other people see what you have done get a little more ruthless than you can be, and decide to do some empire building of their own.

Of course we all didn't have nukes then, so war could be a little less sneaky than it is now. Still it is a pity to see the bad points of history repeating themselves thought.

As for the War of American Independence, well. Home turf, home team advantage, we were inevitably going to loose that one. Still not sure Mel Gibson was completely historically accurate. I don't think he likes the British very much. :D

The more you look into history the more you see it's wheels in wheels in wheels. Same with internal politics, international deplomacy or gunship deplomacy. Should we really expect any of this bull to be transparent for once? Probably not. Should we really be surprised when people get cyncial about any countries reasons and motives for doing something when there are "fringe benefits" of doing so? Again probably not.

When it comes to international policy I firmly believe there is no such thing as serendipity, zemblanity on the other hand, sure.

Do what I do and blame this all on your past squabbles with the French. The War of American Independence was simply a "venture capital" war to subsidize trade to the New World, anyhow. It just had REALLY good PR.

Man, you have NO idea how many so-called "patriotic" Americans don't want to believe that particular incovenient truth...

Kumada42

04-21-2008, 09:37 PM

I think before anyone says they hate America, they have toi look at each of the 50 states first. Not all Americans are stupid fat and lazy. Yeah, there's a BUTTLOAD of them, but it's not all of them.

I live in New Mexico, but I was raised in Wyoming. The differences are amazing.

In Wyoming, you've got a majority population of "country boys". A lot of ranches and farms and what not. And yet, most of them can read well, commit to math, science, and writing. Wyomingites are actually very intelligent (for farmers at least).

New Mexico is another story. I have NEVER seen a more concentrated group of idiots in my life. Simple critical thinking, even common sense...it's all lost on these hollow headed imbeciles. Albuquerque just has a frighteningly sad excuse for a school system, and Santa Fe is too artsy fartsy to get its head out of its own butt.

Compared to Wyoming, which is probably over 90% white, New Mexico has a ton of culture to it. There is a lot of history here, from the Santa Fe Trail, to the Mexican American War to Billy the Kid. Not to mention the various Native American and Hispanic culture that has deliciously affected the foods and sights of the state. But Cultural Pride seems to mean more to New Mexicans (regardless of race) then simple, functional common sense and knowledge. We have a great university - University of New Mexico - but all the smart people who graduated there leave for other states.

Oh yeah, one more thing - New Mexico lives off wellfare. Make for hard living and bad economy.I don;t know who's to blame for that. But no one tries to fix it, that's for sure.

On the bright side, your average New Mexican is fairly friendly. You don't want to trust them as far as you can throw them - but they're still friendly.

Anyhoo, are there other States as detestible as New Mexico? Or as likable as Wyoming? Of course. I don't know them, but I'd like to.

So, in conclusion, am I proud to be an American? Meh, sure, we'll go with that. But I am far more proud to say I'm a Wyomingite.

ClymAngus

04-25-2008, 04:10 PM

Very good point, from the outside it is easy (and interllectually lazy) to see any country as a unified mass. When as you so rightly say attitudes, values and politics can be wildly different not just state by state but street by street.

It is this stereotypical view of America that doesn't do Americans any favours. How you combat it however, that is the question.

Ayu

05-18-2008, 08:57 PM

I am sorta sad because of all the war America is in right now.. And I don't think its a good reason to be in war.. But.. ;-; I hope not alot of people die. I really do.

Horomaru

05-18-2008, 11:16 PM

I could say something long and well-informative, however, I shall simply point out some matters that people tend to overlook.

People are people, and as all people, we fear, or should I say, we are naturally apprhensive towards entities that are different from our own. This only goes to prove the driving factors behind nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
All of this could be compounded into one word: Ignorance.

Also, another result of ignorance, or simply spite, are devious rumors revolving around our country, America.
People tend to believe what others say about the country, especially if it tends to degrade it. This is a lesser by-product of ignorance.

Take for example, I know many Asian countries that have rumors of the Southern U.S. population being "country-bumpkins." Is this true? Of course not.
And we, as Americans, have rumors of all Asians eating dogs and cats. Is this true? Hardly.

But it all lies to one thing. Nationalism and Ignorance span hatred for one another, but it seems the U.S. is especially vunerable to these plights, seeing as though it IS the world's leading power.

It's shameful. Some countries will actually suffer from a natural disaster and reject U.S. aid and let their own people die, just to prove how much they hate the United States.

BlueShadow

05-21-2008, 11:02 PM

Very good points Horomaru, and ClyveAngus, at first I thought you were just another US hater, but I like how you are going about your arguments.

In any case, if I can be frank, I don't think America should give a damn about what other countries think of it. But I do want to brush a few points.

In that case of Democratic Countries like America, people's likes or dislikes of the country are nothing but pointless observations based on the current time period. The face and state of our country changes every time we elect a new leader. We've been a worthless country (Carter), a progressive country (Lincoln, Eisenhower, Roosevelt) a country of deadly misteps (Clinton, Bush) and the greatest country in the world (Reagan). The only thing that has remained consistent in this country is the progression of equal rights among it's people (yes, the homosexuals will most likely have nation wide marriage rights in the next 50 years or so) and our lead in the tech and arms race.

As for all of the wars we've had in the short 220 or so years we've been a nation: I find it hard to find a country that didn't have many.. many wars when they started out. The reasons for our wars? Independence, civil rights, saving Europe's ass from complete fascist rule, and our own nations security.

There isn't a single thing nor country in this world that is perfect, but the US is a damn good country and I'm proud to be an American

Morpher

05-22-2008, 01:29 AM

I support America, not Bush. The thing is we elected a man we would like to sit down and have a beer with. That's not a good decision. But I fully support the soldiers in Iraq. We were bombed. Children slaughtered daily in the streets? What about the children who kissed their mothers and fathers goodbye in the morning before they left for work, and then later that day were told ",I'm sorry, but your parent is dead." Just imagine being that person. Not to mention the thousands who died on the planes. Not good at all, but what about the one filled with the heroes that decided they would crash the plan thousands of miles from it's target? Americans forget because the B-list celebrities that think they're funny criticize it. It's "The Shiny Pop Can Theory." Humans would rather look at a shiny pop can than look at solid iron. Shallow? Maybe, but if Bush tried to do his job. He didn't do well, but that's no reason to look at the pop can. Let's look at the iron for once and be less ignorant.

Kuro

05-22-2008, 06:13 AM

The thing is we elected a man we would like to sit down and have a beer with.

...you would have a beer with that idiot?

Blue Leader

05-22-2008, 04:36 PM

No matter where you are, no matter what country you're in or what country you're from, there's always someone in the world who's going to hate it. That's just the way it is, there's no changing there.

America just has had more publicity over it-- especially within the past few years. And Bush really hasn't helped things at all and has only made matters worse.
Granted the US "invaded" other countries where we really don't belong, but us regular citizens really don't have much say over that, obviously, so don't blame us for that.

But as said already, America gets a lot of its hate simply because it's big. Have you ever noticed most of the countries that hate America are small countries who don't have a lot of money or resoruces, yet whenever they're in trouble they always come crying to us for help? (And for some reason beyond my understanding we always give those countries our help-- if it was me I'd tell those countries to shove it. >>;; )
America, Japan, Russia... can't remember the other "big" countries... but they're all ones that get hate frequently from around the world simply because they have more power, money, and resources.

The one thing I can say that I don't like about America (besides Bush) is how long it takes for the USA to provide help within our own country, and yet in another country we're right there to lend support. Not to mention how we help other countries so much that we get less and less in our own country. We should be putting our citizens first, but it seems to be the other way around.
Take Katrina... How many years has it been since that happened, and they're still trying to rebuild the place. It took them almost a year just to get help out there to everyone. Yet in another country, bam, we're right there to supply aid and give them everything we can the very next day. What's with that?
And the useless "war" in Iraq... The US has spent so much money over there that the economy is hurting over it. We citizens are suffering because Bush has deemed it wise to continue to flush all of our money over there, which is doing nothing at all in Iraq anyway. Food prices are rising, gas prices are rising, people need help, oil is going up, hell prices for everything are rising, and yet we continue to piss away money in Iraq. Jeez, that ticks me off.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this country at all, I am glad I live here (erm, usually), I just don't agree with some of the things done in the US.
...I'll shut up now.

Take for example, I know many Asian countries that have rumors of the Southern U.S. population being "country-bumpkins." Is this true? Of course not.

This is true. Very true.
But I don't mean to go on about that. Just to spread a little humor here, because I can't resist saying it because it fits so well with the above quote... A story...
When my uncle was in college in Oregon there was a girl who came over from England I think it was (or maybe France, I can't remember). She joined the college in Oregon, and thought that Oregon still had cowboys, Indians and ramshackle towns like in the old western movies. She was pretty disappointed when she found out she was about 150 years too late. :P

LadyShizuka

06-08-2008, 01:52 AM

I think America is a good place. I wouldn't want to live in Iran or Japan. Think of this If you got raped in America they would TRY to find the person and in most cases do find the person and put them in jail (most times). But in Japan they don't care, its an everyday thing sometimes and the Japan society don't do anything about it. Just my thoughts ^^

Edit: I don't want this to turn into a political thing here, but I don't support Bush and yet I do. I think it was right to do something back at the Terrorist, but not Iraq. We also should have brought back all of our soldiers sooner because Iraq wants nothing to do with us and once we pull back it will go bad again. See know you got me in to it too, anyway I'm going to shut up right now cause I don't want to do this V.V;;

Kuro

06-14-2008, 07:12 AM

In any case, if I can be frank, I don't think America should give a damn about what other countries think of it.

You know it's that attitude that makes most other countries hate us.

Zangya

06-14-2008, 05:16 PM

Kuro

06-14-2008, 10:07 PM

I find it so funny to watch the reactions and opinions of fellow Americans. My own view is slanted for obvious reasons but examining our "American Persona" from a more international view is interesting. It's no wonder other people find Americans to be aloof and imperialistic in regards to the rest of the world.

In the end we followed the European model closer than any of our founding fathers would have wanted. As a country we've become bloated and inflated on our own success. To the point that we ignore or are simply unwilling to accept the problems that run deep through our governmental policies. We allow our government the free range to remove rights and safety measures put into place at the founding of our nation.

Every bible thumping survivalist fool can push his right to have a gun but how many understand why it was initially put into place? Maybe I'm pressing a bit too far into sensitive territory there.

In the end we live in a country that is unwilling to accept the sovereign right of other countries. We are raised to believe America is number one in all things when frankly this is not the case. As a global super power we are waining, politically our bonds with our fellow nations are tenuous ready to snap in many cases. In truth many of the problems with War around the world can be directly linked to America and our Persona.

We envision ourselves as the conquering hero. Going head first into battle for the good of mankind. When in fact we have never been that figure. You can cite our involvement in the World Wars and Vietnam but in the end our involvement was only to further our own agenda. America is a reactionary animal, we are not the global policeman.

I doubt we will ever see the America most of us were raised to believe so fiercely in. At least not in our time, perhaps not even in my grandchildren time. The scars from misinformation and deceit run deep. Generations deep in fact. What we can do for now is try to understand our position on the world's stage and act accordingly. This doesn't always mean aiming our gun at the "bad" man. More often than not it is taking a step back, sliding off the high horse and meeting other countries as equals. A sword may cut down the man in front of you but you will always have to worry about his family and friends. The sword of diplomacy and restraint however cuts away all hostile threads. In the end it is the strongest weapon in the world, greater than any bomb or missile.

I suggest you take a deep look at your own beliefs and try to keep an open mind to others. It may be cliche but it's the best we can do for the time being. Do not define yourselves by the actions of your figureheads as you are so willing to define others in kind. That is what will bring you respect as an American.

Aramek

06-15-2008, 05:07 AM

I still think it would be easier to unite all nations and people of the world under one, powerful American Regime. Ever seen Equilibrium? Yeah, like that. That would be so boss.

BigTUnit1

06-15-2008, 05:21 AM

I still think it would be easier to unite all nations and people of the world under one, powerful American Regime. Ever seen Equilibrium? Yeah, like that. That would be so boss.

Yeah, no art, literature, or anything else that would cause emotional expression...that would be a blastXD

Kuro

06-15-2008, 09:56 AM

I can taste your sarcasm from here, it's minty with a hint of cinnamon.

Devoted

06-15-2008, 04:04 PM

Hrm...I think I still need to figure out what being an American entails before I decide whether I'm proud of it or not.

Really, I'm not an extremely political person, so I can't talk. I need to start watching the presidential debates more often, though it's not going to be as good this time around without Tim Russert.

Arahime

06-27-2008, 07:34 PM

I dissaprove of the american culture in the sense it is very shallow

I also dislike Bush because of his diregard of the effect americas emmisions has on the environment

Alot of people seem to have been annoyed by my saying this so I will clarify:

I don't think all americans are shallow, not at all, I have many american friends, however i think the american CULTURE is shallow.

I never said I hated america or blamed americans for pollution. I blamed BUSH and his attitude to this issue. Though I dissagree that saying pollution is a bad reason to hate a country. I think pollution is the worst thing in this world. (big envoirmentalist lol)

Hope that stops those who were complaining about my comment from hating me lol

In fairness I never said I hated america in my post. I like America, well its OK, I was just saying the main things I thought was the worst about the country ^ ^:)