Star Trek: Defiant - Altered Reflections (1)

[Eric L.Busby]

Well I am very happy to announce the first all new episode of Star Trek - Defiant (Altered Reflections) is now online and available for download. It can be found here.

http://darkerprojects.com/Defiant.html

Peace

Eric L. Busby
Project Head
Darker Projects Audio Works

www.darkerprojects.com

[ClymAngus]

Well that kicks ass. :)

Nice one.

[Eric L.Busby]

Thanks Clym,

I have been very surprised by the feedback I have been getting from this on other BBS out there. Not to mention how many times its been downloaded from our web site. It's far surpassed anything else we have so far done... And its done it in only four days.....

Yikes.

ELB

[ClymAngus]

Dude!

Your suprised? It's trek! Some people make that series the entire point of their lives, they defend it with batleths drawn! Whovians are *something* to behold but they pail into insignificance infront of the trekheads. (yes I know they prefer the name trekers, but then I'd have to be worried about pissing them off.) If your taking on trek then get ya story right, those boys do scrutiny to the point of phorensics. Get a stardate wrong or ya time line off trak or your photon inductor coil coupled to the wrong nano phase emitter and Bang Baby! Down on you like a red hot ton of bricks.

Although you can split infinitives, do that as much as you like, that's fine.

[Ken_Chang]

As I've told you before! Very impressive, and can't wait for part two! :) :) :)

Kevin Cho - Pioneer Productions

[Eric L.Busby]

Would that there was going to be a part two.

Sadly Defiant has been taken away from me and I was informed by the powers that be behind Defiant that they were now going to be taking it over and I am not allowed to use any of the characters from it and not to produce anything about it or mention it in anything that I produce.

Ahhh well what can you do?

[chronocrossed]

Would that there was going to be a part two.

Sadly Defiant has been taken away from me and I was informed by the powers that be behind Defiant that they were now going to be taking it over and I am not allowed to use any of the characters from it and not to produce anything about it or mention it in anything that I produce.

Ahhh well what can you do?

Unless those in question actually have Paramount's permission to use the name Defiant and it's characters exclusively, I doubt they can say you cannot produce any related material. I mean you've produced such material before...

How dare they?

[Eric L.Busby]

It's because of this e-mail I got that I have posted bellow.

*removed*

I could just go a head with those who wourld follow me and recast the parts with the people who has some issue with me. But that would be openning a can of worms that I just do not wish to deal with.

Defiant's audio tales (At least done by me) are a done issue I fear.

ELB

[PendantProductions]

Unless those in question actually have Paramount's permission to use the name Defiant and it's characters exclusively, I doubt they can say you cannot produce any related material. I mean you've produced such material before...

How dare they?


It's the characters more than anything. The characters aren't pre-existing Star trek characters, but characters those of us on the list (which has been running since 1995 in text-based stories) created. Those we do hold the copyrights on.

As for "how dare we", we dare because we care, and because the characters belong to us. Defiant is something we've spent nearly a decade crafting and, as such, want to see it done in a way that accurately reflects the universe we've created. We don't hate Eric' stories or think they're bad, they're just not what the people who created the universe have made Defiant about. It's not what we've created, and the list members didn't like seeing it presented in a way that wasn't in line with what we'd all worked on for so long.

That being said, we'll be producing Defiant audio stories ourselves and I urge you to give us a fair shot once it's completed. It will be a month or two until the first chapter is ready to go, I imagine, but I plan to make a post once it's ready.

Eric's Defiant was fine, but it's not the Defiant he based the stories on and that's the Defiant we'll be bringing to audio life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

[PendantProductions]

It's because of this e-mail I got that I have posted bellow.

Well, it's not every day that someone takes a private email and posts it on a public message board for the world to see. While I'm not thrilled with Eric for his actions in that matter, at least it illustrates the reasoning behind the whole issue.

We wish Eric good luck in all his future audio endeavors and hope the rest of you will give us a listen when our first chapter is done in a month or two (it's our first attempt at this, so it's taking us some time :)

Thanks for reading.

[Eric L.Busby]

*sigh*

You win Jeffery. And I'll remove the e-mail.

Defiant's yours, do as you wish.

I give up.

[ClymAngus]

Eric look at it this way, if the legal team from Paramount decide that their going to take the franchise away or impose crippling royalty payments on PendantProductions, (which can be legally backdated) . You won't be the one suffering the wake up call.

Pendant, you've built your towers on shifting sands. But then I could say this about all the fanficers. Lots of effort for something that is not going to be recognised, and isn't yours.

Now a vicous person might in form Paramount, you may hold copyright over the characters but the world you've set it in my friends is still Gene's. And if you want it you've got to pay the fiddler. I think you should count yourselves very lucky that the VAA has more integrety than that, but I for one am not too impressed with your heavy handed attitude.

[PendantProductions]

Eric look at it this way, when the legal team from Paramount decide that their going to take the franchise away or impose crippling royalty payments on PendantProductions, (which can be legally backdated) . You won't be the one suffering the wake up call.

If you actually read up on copyright law, you'd see that they can't sue us or demand any money from us because *we* are not making any money off of it. If we were, you'd be absolutely right. But we're not foolish enough to think we could sell these stories to people, even if we wanted to, which we wouldn't.

They can send us a cease and desist order, but there's as much chance of the BBC doing that for Doctor Who audio stories and LucasFilm doing it for Star Wars audio stories. So it's really not fair to single us out for something just about everyone is doing in one form or the other. :)



Now a vicous person might in form Paramount, you may hold copy right over the characters but the world you've set it in my friends is still Gene's.

Yes, we're well aware of that. That's why it's called "Star Trek". :)
Although these days one could argue it's more Rick Berman's than Gene's, and that's why the current televsion shows seem to suck so much. :p



I think you should count yourselves very lucky that the VAA has more integrety than that, but I for one am not too impressed with your heavy handed attitude.

Well we weren't trying to impress you, so I'm not too concerned. ;)

Look at it this way... Eric was doing audio stories for a large group of people. A majority of those people felt that, after several stories, it wasn't what they were looking for in representing their works in audio form. It's not much different from people electing a different President when they're unhappy with the direction the country is going.

I am *not* comparing Eric to a certain current bad President! :) It's just an analogy that fits, because it was a democratic decision and the majority wanted Defiant audio to be something else. Ultimately, it's my job (being the list runner and creator) to listen to them. I am sorry if you are not happy with that or hate us or whatever, but think what you will, you have that right.

As for us, we'll go on making our Defiant audio stories and I'll hope you give them a fair chance when they're done. And if not, so be it. In that case, I hope you find some other audio stories you like better.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Eric L.Busby]

I am *not* comparing Eric to a certain current bad President! :) It's just an analogy that fits,

If anyone ever... EVER compairs me to W. I will not be held responsible for my actions. :twisted:



If you actually read up on copyright law, you'd see that they can't sue us or demand any money from us because *we* are not making any money off of it. If we were, you'd be absolutely right. But we're not foolish enough to think we could sell these stories to people, even if we wanted to, which we wouldn't.


So by that right if I really wanted to I could just re-cast the whole thing and keep on telling the tales of Defiant and crew. And there would not be a damn thing you could do to stop me.

Not that I would or anything...... You can trust me.... Really. :D

[PendantProductions]

So by that right if I really wanted to I could just re-cast the whole thing and keep on telling the tales of Defiant and crew. And there would not be a damn thing you could do to stop me.

Not that I would or anything...... You can trust me.... Really. :D

Not recast insomuch as create an entirely new cast. If you insist upon using the same ship with entirely different characters, of course I can't stop you. Feel free.

Just do be aware it will likely alienate you from a majority of the list, not to mention confuse people in general to have two Defiant audios around.

So I really don't understand why you wouldn't just use an entirely different ship. If you're going to have an entirely new crew anyway, why not give them their own ship and be completely original? That seems to be what you want anyway, so keeping Defiant around would be a hindrance to you, an inconvenience to your (and our) listeners and an annoyance to the rest of your friends on the list.

But hey, it's your call. You can burn all those bridges if you so choose. Just don't get mad when you need them later and they're nothing but smoldering cinders. :)

[ClymAngus]

If you actually read up on copyright law, you'd see that they can't sue us or demand any money from us because *we* are not making any money off of it. If we were, you'd be absolutely right. But we're not foolish enough to think we could sell these stories to people, even if we wanted to, which we wouldn't.

They can send us a cease and desist order, but there's as much chance of the BBC doing that for Doctor Who audio stories and LucasFilm doing it for Star Wars audio stories. So it's really not fair to single us out for something just about everyone is doing in one form or the other. :)


Ooooo I appear to have cut myself on your whit...
If you ever took a look in an atlas, you would soon realise that there are several countries in the world other than your own. Some of them even have differing copy laws. But then being such an expert in the field you'd already know that wouldn't you? The type of media also effects copyright and on who's hard drive it's sitting on, but again being an expert in international digital copyright law, which changes weekly. I'm preaching to the converted.


Now a vicous person might in form Paramount, you may hold copy right over the characters but the world you've set it in my friends is still Gene's.

Yes, we're well aware of that. That's why it's called "Star Trek". :)
Although these days one could argue it's more Rick Berman's than Gene's, and that's why the current televsion shows seem to suck so much. :p

That's not a defence, and any legal thoughts you had about " parody" would be on fairly shaky ground too.



I think you should count yourselves very lucky that the VAA has more integrety than that, but I for one am not too impressed with your heavy handed attitude.

Well we weren't trying to impress you, so I'm not too concerned. ;)

So what were you trying to do? The production, your list dislikes so much is still on the net and still being downloaded, it's mirrored on several sites and a good few scifi message boards. It can't be to defend yourself because you have the backing of your 'membership' So why make an appearance here? Why this message board? Why now?



Look at it this way... Eric was doing audio stories for a large group of people. A majority of those people felt that, after several stories, it wasn't what they were looking for in representing their works in audio form. It's not much different from people electing a different President when they're unhappy with the direction the country is going.

I am *not* comparing Eric to a certain current bad President! :) It's just an analogy that fits, because it was a democratic decision and the majority wanted Defiant audio to be something else. Ultimately, it's my job (being the list runner and creator) to listen to them.


Fair enough, I also respect Eric for being a kick ass producer who can put together some really good productions. Creativity is the reserve of the artist, artistic endevour is not a democracy, someone has to steer the creative process or it ends in anarchey and nothing gets made. You shouldn't have used a producer your project needed a "yes man" to keep the other writers happy. Oh, I don't dislike you (I find your point of view, mildly annoying but as you so correctly put I'm entitled to my opinion) Hate takes effort, and I really can't be that bothered.


You may be the list runner, you may be many things :) But at the moment, on this board. Eric is respected. He's proven he's good through hard work and effort. You've thrown away a good resource and your going to have to work your little socks off to produce something at his level. I wish you the best of luck, your going to need it.

[Eric L.Busby]

Not recast insomuch as create an entirely new cast. If you insist upon using the same ship with entirely different characters, of course I can't stop you. Feel free.

Indeed.
But thankfuly Mark and I have.....

Well you'll find out. :wink:

[PendantProductions]

If you ever took a look in an atlas, you would soon realise that there are several countries in the world other than your own. Some of them even have differing copy laws. But then being such an expert in the field you'd already know that wouldn't you?

Ah, but there's the rub. What country the file is hosted in is the one with jurisdiction over it where law is concerned. We'll be hosted in the U.S., and in the U.S. we're not breaking copyright laws.

That being said, you did happen to ignore my point that this is what *all* fan audio is doing (including Eric), so you can't apply the above to us like we're some evil bad guys ripping off money from destitute Paramount's empty coffers. What we (all fan audio) do does not hurt Paramount (or any other corporation) in any way, and if you're going to pick on *us* about it, you should be picking on every other post on this board. :)



That's not a defence, and any legal thoughts you had about " parody" would be on fairly shaky ground too.

Oh, we're not a parody. Or a satire. And never claimed to be.

And I wasn't making any sort of defense. It's not necessary, because your claim is baseless unless, in fact, you are making the same claim to every fan audio group on this entire message board.



So what were you trying to do? The production, your list dislikes so much is still on the net and still being downloaded, it's mirrored on several sites and a good few scifi message boards. It can't be to defend yourself because you have the backing of your 'membership' So why make an appearance here? Why this message board? Why now?

Because "now" was when I took over the audio stories. Eric has mentioned this board (and several others) before and I have followed them for a while (long before I registered). As I stated in my original post on other boards (but seem to have left out here accidentally), I felt only one side of the issue was being presented and so I just wanted to present the other side. You don't have to agree with it, but you should at least hear it before making up your mind.

All I want is for our audios to be given a fair shot. Listen to them with an open mind, and if you hate them, so be it. I won't mind. Just don't hate them before they've even begun. ;)




Fair enough, I also respect Eric for being a kick ass producer who can put together some really good productions. Creativity is the reserve of the artist, artistic endevour is not a democracy, someone has to steer the creative process or it ends in anarchey and nothing gets made.

Oh, there will be steering. But it will be just that, steering. Not an overriding control where 80% of the people the audio stories are supposed to represent are left out and/or displeased. If they hate what I do, someone else will take them over and that's that.



You shouldn't have used a producer your project needed a "yes man" to keep the other writers happy.

We don't need a "yes man", we just need someone with a vision that aligns with ours. It's like choosing a director for a movie... choose a director whose vision is not the same as the writers and you end up with something that's not what it should be. You wouldn't hire Tim Burton to direct a movie about a Nazi concentration camp, and you wouldn't hire Steven Spielberg to direct a movie about a gothic man with scissors for hands.

Eric did a fine job, as I've said time and again. He just has a different vision than the rest of us do, and so we're going to try to get something more in line with what the majority would like to see. I hope his future audio stories do well. In fact, keep an eye out for his new "Gothik" stories, because those are the type of stories Eric excells at.



You may be the list runner, you may be many things :)

Oh, the fine art of the subtle dig.



But at the moment, on this board. Eric is respected. He's proven he's good through hard work and effort. You've thrown away a good resource and your going to have to work your little socks off to produce something at his level. I wish you the best of luck, your going to need it.

First of all, I never said or claimed that he wasn't respected. I respect Tim Burton, but I still wouldn't hire him to direct Schindler's List. It's just not the right fit. As for producing something with as good of a production value as Eric's endeavors, it may not happen. I certainly know it won't anytime in the first few chapters, because we're still learning.

Maybe we'll get there someday, maybe we won't. However, a key point to remember is that we don't care if we never make it there. We'll do our best each and every time, but we're not trying to "get noticed" by professional audio companies or anything. We're just doing this for fun.

Hobbies and professional work are different things. My work for professional consideration goes to my agent. My hobby of trying to do Defiant audios that accurately represent the Defiant us list members have known and created for nine years goes to this board (and many others) for you folks to listen to.

If you like it, great, we hope we can entertain you. If you hate it, don't listen to future installments and we thank you for giving us a try. Either way, we're doing them for fun and that's all that matters.

Thanks for taking the effort to post such a thoughtful reply. You say you can't be bothered with the effort, but your reply clearly shows that you can. :)

[ClymAngus]

But individual users have been sued for having copyrighted material on their hard drives. It's not as clean cut, as you might think, and with the jury still out on file sharing......

Also if this project ment that much to you why didn't you take control of it from the beginning?

Fine art of the suble dig indeed, that's your assumption not mine :)

but, my my my this is all looking terribly academic, the world in which you have set all this accepts the possiblities of parallel universes so anyone can write a story regarding Defiant, you can thank Gene for that.

As far as I can see everyone gets what everyone wants. Eric gets cart blanch to make what he likes, and your crew get to keep their pet project unsullied. Anything else is something of a moot point.

Also, If you check my original message I was refering to the effort involved in hate, not the effort needed to reply to you in a fitting manor. If you wish to continue this, then please do try and forward me the courtesy of quote me correctly, instead of taking my words out of context. Thank you :)

[PendantProductions]

Also if this project ment that much to you why didn't you take control of it from the beginning?

As I said before... I didn't think I could. I knew nothing about audio and didn't think it was something I could do well enough to bother. Two years later I was asked, and so I looked into it more, and discovered that I probably could do it. So we're trying.



Fine art of the suble dig indeed, that's your assumption not mine :)

Just because you claim it's an assumption doesn't make it so. Some things can be read plain as day, even when they're not spelled out. And hey, it was a compliment, just accept it and be happy. :)



but, my my my this is all looking terribly academic, the world in which you have set all this accepts the possiblities of parallel universes so anyone can write a story regarding Defiant, you can thank Gene for that.

Yes indeedy. Eric can do that if he so chooses, just still only with characters whose creators would like to participate. That fact has never changed and never will. If the entire crew wanted their characters in his stories (providing he actually chose to write some of them in), they would be.



As far as I can see everyone gets what everyone wants. Eric gets cart blanch to make what he likes, and your crew get to keep their pet project unsullied. Anything else is something of a moot point.

Yes, that's pretty much what I've been saying all along.



lso, If you check my original message I was refering to the effort involved in hate, not the effort needed to reply to you in a fitting manor. If you wish to continue this, then please do try and forward me the courtesy of quote me correctly, instead of taking my words out of context. Thank you :)

Yes, well, that was meant as a joke, hence the smiley. Oh well, chalk it up to the limits of text-based communication. Whatever. :)

[Eric L.Busby]

Oh for the love of God......

Jeffery you've won. Okay... happy now?
Defiant's all your.

I'm sorry I ever did a story with it in the first place now. I really am.

So do whatever you want.
I'm done with it!

[ClymAngus]

[quote="PendantProductions"
Oh well, chalk it up to the limits of text-based communication. Whatever. :)[/quote]

Just so we understand each other. I shall very much look forward to critiquing your efforts. Cadet.

[chronocrossed]

It's the characters more than anything. The characters aren't pre-existing Star trek characters, but characters those of us on the list (which has been running since 1995 in text-based stories) created. Those we do hold the copyrights on.

As for "how dare we", we dare because we care, and because the characters belong to us. Defiant is something we've spent nearly a decade crafting and, as such, want to see it done in a way that accurately reflects the universe we've created. We don't hate Eric' stories or think they're bad, they're just not what the people who created the universe have made Defiant about. It's not what we've created, and the list members didn't like seeing it presented in a way that wasn't in line with what we'd all worked on for so long.

That being said, we'll be producing Defiant audio stories ourselves and I urge you to give us a fair shot once it's completed. It will be a month or two until the first chapter is ready to go, I imagine, but I plan to make a post once it's ready.

Eric's Defiant was fine, but it's not the Defiant he based the stories on and that's the Defiant we'll be bringing to audio life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

I totally understand where you are coming from on this. In fact I did not know the whole story until now. However I still think that you're acting a bit too protective over characters that you'll likely not see any profit from by keeping them exclusive. Sure I myself may take exception to someone using a character from something I've done, but I have few origional characters in any production I've made for that very reason. If I don't make origional characters no one can steal them.

You see, basically, having a copyright on a characters that you are using in a fictional universe you don't own the rights to isn't much protection at all. For example, because you set it in the "Star Trek" universe, if Paramount wanted to, they could take your characters and use them without a problem. Or they would more than likely sue you for using "Star Trek" and "Defiant" in the title of your stories. Now I have doubt they'd even do so unless you tried to sell your stories and future audios/videos, but I am sure you get my point.

Anyway, fact is, you taking exception to Eric continuing to use "Defiant" isn't really what urks me (as I said, I understand). The main thing that urks me about this whole situation is that all the hard work I've done as a VA for the most recent Defiant project seems to be in jeopardy because you seem unwilling to let Eric finish the RP that he's started (unless I am misunderstanding the situation of course). If he can't indeed finish then all the time I put into recording is for nothing. Not to mention all the other VAs work and all the time Eric himself spent writing and mixing is for nothing. And as a unpaid VA the only satisfaction I get, the only compensation I get, is seeing (hearing) the finished product.

Now I don't see why you couldn't just allow Eric to produce "Defiant" RPs separate from your continuity. I have no doubt it would work. I am sure that if you simply state on yours that you are the origional creators and Eric does the same on his (stating that you are the creators) only he also adds that his are "what if" scenerios and are in no way official (meaning not from the origional creators) "Defiant" audios that there would be no problem with the two co-existing. Why would such a compromise not work? I see no reason why it wouldn't. You guys still get your vision and Eric gets his. You both win.

[PendantProductions]

I totally understand where you are coming from on this. In fact I did not know the whole story until now. However I still think that you're acting a bit too protective over characters that you'll likely not see any profit from by keeping them exclusive.

No, it has nothing to do with profit. It just has to do with seeing our characters presented in the way we want them to be in the universe we've spent so long crafting. In the same way as a VA you want to see completed projects because of all your work, think if you'd worked on one project for nine years and it was brought to life in audio, but it wasn't true to the source material in the way you had hoped?



Now I don't see why you couldn't just allow Eric to produce "Defiant" RPs separate from your continuity. I have no doubt it would work. I am sure that if you simply state on yours that you are the origional creators and Eric does the same on his (stating that you are the creators) only he also adds that his are "what if" scenerios and are in no way official (meaning not from the origional creators) "Defiant" audios that there would be no problem with the two co-existing. Why would such a compromise not work?

Let me just state (for the umpteenth time :) that from the first private email (which Eric had posted here for a while) I made it perfectly clear Eric was welcome to continue his story with any characters he had permission to use. That's as true now as it was then. I think Eric's doom and gloom made it seem otherwise, but as long as the individual creator's said he could use their characters he was always welcome to.

As for such a compromise, that's a nice solution. But it was never presented as such. In fact, it went so far that there were demands made to the entire list that they must cooperate with Eric's vision or he'd just recast their characters without their permission. I think that may have been more of a knee-jerk reaction on Eric's part, and he has since apologized and retracted his demand, but perhaps that lets you see where we're coming from.

In a group that's been a democracy from its inception, suddenly someone is making demands and threatening to do whatever he felt like with characters he had no right to do that with.

If he'd presented the sort of compromise you suggest, I think we would have been fine with it. It sounds good to me, but then I didn't have as big of a problem with his audios as some others did. But I don't know if Eric would have been okay with not being "official" anyway. Regadless, it's moot now because Eric's decided to continue his Trek audio stories under the "Section 31 Files" banner.

As I said, it actually sounds good to me, but a compromise of any sort was never something Eric even mentioned. He replied to my original email and told me he was fine with me taking over Defiant audios, so I had no reason to think a compromise was even needed.

Anyway, thanks for your calm and understanding reply, and your great compromise suggestion. It's always nice to talk to rational people. :)

[Eric L.Busby]

By the way.

Something I have been meaning to ask. Besides you who exactly who was it that had a major issues with my stories?

[PendantProductions]

By the way.

Something I have been meaning to ask. Besides you who exactly who was it that had a major issues with my stories?

I'm not at liberty to say. They came to me in confidence and it's not for me to make their names public, because that would be betraying their trust.

[Eric L.Busby]

I'm not at liberty to say. They came to me in confidence and it's not for me to make their names public, because that would be betraying their trust.

How convenient.

Ahh well its all moot now I guess.

I am happy to announce that the story Altered Reflections will be continued in a bold new series Star Trek - The Section 31 Files

It took some doing but I was able to make changes to the script. Fortunately the nature of the story as such that it allowed me to do that. And all characters that appear in the tale have given me full permission to use them.

The Section 31 Files are going to be a different type of Star Trek story. More black ops and adventure and its something I hope people are going to enjoy. Indeed once I am finished with Altered Reflections I am openning up to any and all who might want to write for it.

So check out the web site. No new stories yet but the new banner is up.

http://darkerprojects.com/section31.html

[PendantProductions]

How convenient.

Yeah, I didn't expect you to say that or anything. At least you're not predictable. :)

Well, believe it's all a lie if you will, I don't care. I won't break promises made to friends just because you think I'm a liar. You can think that all you want, it doesn't bother me because I know the truth and so do they.



Ahh well its all moot now I guess.

Yes it is, which makes me wonder why you bothered asking. :p

[Eric L.Busby]

Yes it is, which makes me wonder why you bothered asking. :p

Why?
I dare... because I care.....
And words to those effects.

Now in all seriousness Jeffery is going to have a ruff time as it is getting the new Defiant audios running.

As just about everyone here knows making audio dramas can be really hard work. And time consuming.

The learning curve alone is not friendly and can cause a lot of harsh criticism across the net. Once it out there everyone takes a look and gives there opinion. I know my very first audio was torn asunder. They nailed me on everything from sound quality to what they felt was very poor acting. I almost gave up on them then and there.

But I kept at it and It's take me close to two years to get where I am now. And I know I still have a lot to learn. But there a lot of us go.

If he can make it work the rewards are more than worth the efforts.

True, I am not happy with the way he went about taking over the Defiant audios, and he could have been a little more tactful. And it upset me and others (not just here but on other BBS as well). But its a done deal now. I've chosen to let him take it the way he want it. And I've chosen to go my own way as well.

So I am looking forward to telling The Section 31 Files. And looking forward to what people have to say about them.

And that's about everything.

ELB

[ClymAngus]

It seems to me that a lot of assumptions were made by both parties. Eric thought he had more scope than he did, and you neglected to keep good and orderly control of the production process. As a result a lot of time and effort has been wasted, by Eric (when he could have been pouring his energy into more profitable productions), by you (who could have had your first episode done and dusted by now), by your membership (worrying over the usage of their creations) and by VAA members (who wasted time, talent and encouragement)

You have a lot of work to do. Best get to it, fortunatly from this sorry state of affairs the only way for everyone involved is up. All be it in different directions.

[PendantProductions]

Why?
I dare... because I care.....
And words to those effects.

You use my words to say you dare to ask questions that you yourself declare to be moot... because you care? That doesn't even make sense.

I think those space ducks are getting to you.

[Eric L.Busby]

You have a lot of work to do. Best get to it, fortunatly from this sorry state of affairs the only way for everyone involved is up. All be it in different directions.

Indeed.

[PendantProductions]

True, I am not happy with the way he went about taking over the Defiant audios, and he could have been a little more tactful.

Then perhaps you need to reread the first email that I sent you (you know, the one you initially had posted up here for the world to see) explaining all of this, because it was as tactful as tact gets. And you responded and said everything was fine, and then you had what appears to be a mini-meltdown and decided it all *wasn't* okay, and then you did things you've already apologized for and it became a huge mess.

Regardless, I could have been more tactful in my responses to you on some BBSs, that is true. But to me, the time for tact had passed when you posted personal attacks against me without my even being around to defend myself. If you want to look for a lack of tact...

But whatever. You've finally decided to move on and we on the list moved on long ago, so that's all there is to it.

Good luck with the Section 31 files, I hope they bring you all the accolades and acclaim that you're looking for.

[ClymAngus]

So, now we've finished with, the veiled threats, pathetic graymails, the dented egos and the endangered principalities of irrational thought. It's back to the red hot creative forge that brought us all here in the first place.

Eric, when you posting the auditions?

[Eric L.Busby]

Right now believe it or not.

I am looking for someone to fill a female role in the second chapter of Altered Reflections. Its small in this chapter but will be playing a much larger role in the third.

If anyone is interested please let me know.

[ClymAngus]

Ooo, this needs to be put on the auditions section of the site. :)