Buried In Falling Sand

[Alexander Davis]

http://dreamseed.us

Our new site launch features our first audio theatre production: Buried in Falling Sand. The production features members of this site!

Enjoy!

[Kevin Gillis]

Why must we pay for it?

[ClymAngus]

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'. :)

[Alexander Davis]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, ClymAngus. ;)

[UltraRob]

Well, good luck with that. But, I myself have serious doubts the market is ready to pay for audio dramas, no matter how well produced. At this point I think they're better as an attraction to drive traffic to your site (if you're a media professional of some kind) as opposed to a product for sale. Audio Dramas I think work in the same vein as webcomics, the money would be in peripherials, not in the products themselves. :???:

Decoder Ring Theatre has the better model for making a profit from Audio Drama, I think. And I suspect they're only breaking even, good thing they're seemingly doing it for fun instead of profit.

Rob

[MorningStar Smiles]

Yeah but Decoder Ring Theatre's site isn't nearly as spiffy looking :P

I think this is a fantastic idea Alex and your site is laid out very nicely. You follow all of the design rules (as far as I could see) and grab the audience's attention with a layout that is nice to look at but is also clear in its delivery of information. And, because you have SO much information to offer, it keeps the listener there. This is probably a given, but make sure you market this like crazy! If people don't know about it, they can't visit it. I wish you the best of luck on this and I'm definitely going to watch for opening positions/casting calls. ^_^

[Edwyn]

Well, that was a pretty interesting preview! And 3.99 doesn't sound like much for a 22 minute long radioplay + extras.... But personally speaking, I'm not in any way compelled to buy your product but from the minute or so of material I heard it sounds very high quality, technical-wise, and well-acted. There are plenty of high quality and well-acted radioplays hovering around here that touch on a variety of subjects and fandoms - the main difference is: they're free. So I'm going the el cheapo route.

Believe me, I'd love to get paid for the stuff I mix as well, but this traditional, direct "exchange of goods and services for monies" system.... It doesn't always work in an online setting. It doesn't always NOT work, but then again there have been other, more ingenious ways of parting a consumer from their cash online.

Then again, you may have better luck marketing this in the iTunes store.

[ClymAngus]

Well, good luck with that. But, I myself have serious doubts the market is ready to pay for audio dramas, no matter how well produced. At this point I think they're better as an attraction to drive traffic to your site (if you're a media professional of some kind) as opposed to a product for sale. Audio Dramas I think work in the same vein as webcomics, the money would be in peripherials, not in the products themselves. :???:

Decoder Ring Theatre has the better model for making a profit from Audio Drama, I think. And I suspect they're only breaking even, good thing they're seemingly doing it for fun instead of profit.

Rob


Well not to get too technical this is one of the fringe benefits of long tail marketing and having a near infinite shelf-life. Your assets are just sitting there waiting to be descovered. If they have the correctly designed hook (first episode for free ending on a bitch of a cliff hanger for example) then you should get a reasonable take up on your product. Next make the ammout payable STUPIDLY small and the ways of paying easy eg Paypal (whom don't charge for petty transactions between paypal accounts) who cares if your only charging 50 cents a download? (most people have that in their change jar at home) Eventually you will be in profit given a reasonable uptake and a long enough time line. It's the autimation that needs to be cracked the database that will recognise the transaction log the email address and send the download or varify the isp and send it straight.

Yes there will be con artists but you've lost 50 cents. Big woop. Consider theft to be free advertising. If you find serial pirates sure shut them down (why they would spend their time doing so I'm unsure). If treated right you shoplifters become your free advertisers drumming you up more trade.

It's an unproven business model sure but give it a few years and 10 cent transactions will be flying about all over the place. There will always be free (because you can't beat free) but high end writers actors and producers might be able to scratch a bit of extra pocket money off this particular endeavor.

[UltraRob]

ClymAngus, the term is Micropayments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayments), and I am actually a big fan of the model since I read Scott McCloud's theories (http://www.scottmccloud.com/home/essays/2003-09-micros/micros.html)on the subject a few years back. However, that said, I still don't believe we're there yet in terms of being able to make it work. We just don't have a payment system in place right now where I can do that unless he ponies up to iTunes (or a similar setup) and sells it as a 99 cent audiobook or somesuch. 50, 10 or 5 cent models are too low for any big sites to touch, and why would anyone use their credit card to pay such low amounts when they have service fees to pay on top of it?

Several companies (such as Microsoft's services for the X-box and ZUNE) are switching to a "credit" model where you buy blocks of credits and then use those credit/points to purchase songs, movies, and whatnot. This could work well for audio dramas (1 credit for one would be nothing if you're buying a hundred credits at a time), but even then will a generation of video addicts actually pay for audio?

As you also point out, we have the whole Long Tail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail) thing going on here, as with any media product that you can stick online. (And audio drama is still as good 10 or 20 years from now as it is today! Nobody looks at the visuals and laughs at how bad they are! :) ) However, when you're in competition with a large body of free work, it's darn hard to get people to pay for it. (I'm still working my way through thousands of amazing (story) quality radio plays from the 30's and 40's! Much less today's stuff Podcasters are whipping off!)

I think the better model is to build your rep, and then ask people to pay for it later once they trust you and know what they're getting. It's a long slow process, but potentially more profitable in the long term.

Or you could do what I do and just do them for fun as a hobby and never expect to make a cent. :)

Rob

[ClymAngus]

ClymAngus, the term is Micropayments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayments), and I am actually a big fan of the model since I read Scott McCloud's theories (http://www.scottmccloud.com/home/essays/2003-09-micros/micros.html)on the subject a few years back.

So we're on the same page then? Cool nuts.



However, that said, I still don't believe we're there yet in terms of being able to make it work. We just don't have a payment system in place right now where I can do that unless he ponies up to iTunes (or a similar setup) and sells it as a 99 cent audiobook or somesuch. 50, 10 or 5 cent models are too low for any big sites to touch, and why would anyone use their credit card to pay such low amounts when they have service fees to pay on top of it?

Well of course. Most pay online or bank related systems aren't catering for the shrapnel end of the market. They want the big transactions where they get a fixed percentage. That said it's getting more feasable to exploit emoney providers who use free small transactions as a sweetener. Look at e-bay for instance.



Several companies (such as Microsoft's services for the X-box and ZUNE) are switching to a "credit" model where you buy blocks of credits and then use those credit/points to purchase songs, movies, and whatnot. This could work well for audio dramas (1 credit for one would be nothing if you're buying a hundred credits at a time), but even then will a generation of video addicts actually pay for audio?

Well as I said, it is untested. As with anything in the comsumer sector you've got to have a product that blows the tits off the opposition and leaves the audience screaming for more. That's the true test of talent, acting writing and mixing. Making audio that's worth something.


As you also point out, we have the whole Long Tail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail) thing going on here, as with any media product that you can stick online. (And audio drama is still as good 10 or 20 years from now as it is today! Nobody looks at the visuals and laughs at how bad they are! :) ) However, when you're in competition with a large body of free work, it's darn hard to get people to pay for it. (I'm still working my way through thousands of amazing (story) quality radio plays from the 30's and 40's! Much less today's stuff Podcasters are whipping off!)

Well you need a proper idea about marketing. Good audience research, hook up with some franchises with a proven track record, cheap pricing, simple free transactions, immediate download, online web access to already bought productions 24/7. It's all about added value. Got to sweeten the deal.



I think the better model is to build your rep, and then ask people to pay for it later once they trust you and know what they're getting. It's a long slow process, but potentially more profitable in the long term.

It's a viable system, may work, may not, we don't know. Can't blame people for trying though.



Or youcould do what I do and just do them for fun as a hobby and never expect to make a cent. :)

Rob

Like I said "you can't beat free" but we know about free, we know free works. That you can attach adverts to an audio site and make a bit of cash to keep the servers turning. It's going to be interesting to see if pay per view can be made to work too. At what levels people will expect paying for media, maybe production sponsorship is the way to go. The first 10 seconds of your mp3 is an add for Coke who give you 5 cents per download and you give them an ip list to prove your not ripping them off. Maybe a bit of both. It's going to be interesting to see what works and what doesn't.

[UltraRob]

So we're on the same page then? Cool nuts.

Absolutely, I actually see the system as one of the best hopes for the comics medium of the future, much like McCloud. If we can get people to pay a penny or two for webcomics (or audio dramas), we'll see more and better work popping up.




Well as I said, it is untested. As with anything in the comsumer sector you've got to have a product that blows the tits off the opposition and leaves the audience screaming for more. That's the true test of talent, acting writing and mixing. Making audio that's worth something.

Definitely, and I do see a few groups such as your own trying to produce such audio. Despite my naysaying, I would love to see it work, I just don't see now being the time and think these guys are setting themselves up to just sit there.



Well you need a proper idea about marketing. Good audience research, hook up with some franchises with a proven track record, cheap pricing, simple free transactions, immediate download, online web access to already bought productions 24/7. It's all about added value. Got to sweeten the deal.

Hmmm...that's something I hadn't considered. Official online audio franchise productions might offer some hope for the medium for the future, all we'd need is some Star Wars or Naruto products done by the companies to get real popular online and we'd see more people giving audio a chance. Of course someone has to convince whoever owns Naruto that the cost of producing the dramas will be recouped by site traffic or downloads.



It's a viable system, may work, may not, we don't know. Can't blame people for trying though.


Not at all, and I'm not sarcastic when I wish them luck, I do mean it. That said, I'm not paying for it.



Like I said "you can't beat free" but we know about free, we know free works. That you can attach adverts to an audio site and make a bit of cash to keep the servers turning. It's going to be interesting to see if pay per view can be made to work too. At what levels people will expect paying for media, maybe production sponsorship is the way to go. The first 10 seconds of your mp3 is an add for Coke who give you 5 cents per download and you give them an ip list to prove your not ripping them off. Maybe a bit of both. It's going to be interesting to see what works and what doesn't.

Right now, I'd say sponsorship is the only way to make any money at this game, and if you can provide quality audio I think you can get the sponsorship and the audience. If you sign up with Libsyn or some of the other podcast services they will bend over backwards helping you find sponsors for your podcast if you have a minimum number of hits per 'cast. However, you have to build an audience first, and that's what I think this production is already failing at by charging from the get-go.

My 2 cents.
Rob

[ClymAngus]

It's all good Mr R!

it's all a bit of an unknown. I wasn't having a go, just like you I'll be interested to see where it all ends up.

[Azure]

This section is really for critique so I don't think you'll get far here with so little material available. That said some actual content in your post would be nice, some info about the project, the cast, what it is even..