Gone too Far?

[Ran]

Well I'm not a Fan of The whole Goths thing (No Offence Goths, i wont Hate you If your a Goth ^^ I know someone whos a Goth ^^) but I think This Has gone a Bit over The Line.... Check This out
*Found This on another forum* This is a newsletter that St. Mary's church in Colorado Springs sent out Last Year...



If Your Child is a Gothic, Reform Through the Lord!

Listed below are some warning signs to indicate if your child may have gone astray from the Lord.
Gothic (or goth) is a very obscure ('obscure' is defined as 'not readily noticed or seen'... I'm pretty sure that people who really are goths are usually fairly noticiable...) and often dangerous culture that young teenagers are prone to participating in.
The gothic culture leads young, susceptible minds into an imagined world of evil, darkness, and violence. Please seek immediate attention through counselling, prayer, and parental guidance to rid your child of Satan's temptations if five or more of the following are applicable to your child:

-Frequently wears black clothing.
-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts.
-Wears excessive black eye makeup, lipstick or nailpolish.
-Wears any odd, silver jewelry or symbols. Some of these include: reversed crosses, pentagrams, pentacles, ankhs or various other Satanic worshipping symbols.
-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos.
-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Marilyn Manson claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against the Lord. Please discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.)
-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak eccentrically.
-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the Bible, prayer, church or sports.
-Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult, witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan.
-Takes drugs.
-Drinks alcohol.
-Is suicidal and/or depressed.
-Cuts, burns or partakes in any other method of self-mutilation. (This is a Satanic ritual that uses pain to detract from the light of God and His love. Please seek immediate attention for this at your local mental health center.)
-Complains of boredom.
-Sleeps too excessively or too little.
-Is excessively awake during the night.
-Dislikes sunlight or any other form of light. (This pertains to vampires promoting the idea that His light is of no use.)
-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.
-Spends large amounts of time alone.
-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child may speak to evil sprits through meditation.)
-Insists on spending time with friends while unaccompanied by an adult.
-Disregards authority figures; teachers, priests, nuns and elders are but a few examples of this.
-Misbehaves at school.
-Misbehaves at home.
-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of this.
-Drinks blood or expresses an interest in drinking blood. (Vampires believe this is how to attain Satan. This act is very dangerous and should be stopped immediately.)
-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources. (Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.)
-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature.
-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer.
-Makes Satanic symbols and/or violently shakes head to music.
-Dances to music in a provocative or sexual manner.
-Expresses an interest in sex.
-Masturbates
-Is homosexual and/or bisexual.
-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include: Satanism, Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism.
-Wears pins, stickers or anything else that contains these various phrases: "I'm so gothic, I'm dead", "woe is me", "I'm a goth".
-Claims to be a goth.

If five or more of these apply to your child, please intervene immediately. The gothic culture is dangerous and Satan thrives within it. If any of these problems persist, enlist your child into your local mental health center.

--St. Mary's Catholic Church


What Do You think of That? Heres what i think


My Answers to This

-Frequently wears black clothing.

Whats wrong with Black clothes? I sometimes wear Black

-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts.


Nah I don't but what if its not a goth Band


-Wears excessive black eye makeup, lipstick or nailpolish.

What if your a Girl


-Wears any odd, silver jewelry or symbols. Some of these include: reversed crosses, pentagrams, pentacles, ankhs or various other Satanic worshipping symbols.

No.

-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos.

No.

-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Marilyn Manson claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against the Lord. Please discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.)

I Hate MM He is Goth. Ugh i hate Goth Music

-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak eccentrically.

wha?

-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the Bible, prayer, church or sports.

Wha?

-Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult, witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan.

I Hate witch craft!

-Takes drugs.

No.

-Drinks alcohol.

No.

-Is suicidal and/or depressed.

No.

-Cuts, burns or partakes in any other method of self-mutilation. (This is a Satanic ritual that uses pain to detract from the light of God and His love. Please seek immediate attention for this at your local mental health center.)

...No

-Complains of boredom.

What?? I'm Always Bored! Im not a Goth!! whats wrong with saying your Bored? Eeryone Says there Bored so Does That Mean EVERYONES A Goth (No.)

-Sleeps too excessively or too little.

What The?

-Is excessively awake during the night.

...

-Dislikes sunlight or any other form of light. (This pertains to vampires promoting the idea that His light is of no use.)

Im not a Vampire i like Light

-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.

whats wrong with Privacy

-Spends large amounts of time alone.

Eh....

-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child may speak to evil sprits through meditation.)

Pfft..No

-Insists on spending time with friends while unaccompanied by an adult.

...

-Disregards authority figures; teachers, priests, nuns and elders are but a few examples of this.

Huh?

-Misbehaves at school.

Im good a school

-Misbehaves at home.

Well.....

-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of this.

No. Goth Has Food? Weird......

-Drinks blood or expresses an interest in drinking blood. (Vampires believe this is how to attain Satan. This act is very dangerous and should be stopped immediately.)

Blood....Ahem I kid I Kid..
No.

-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources. (Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.)

Yes?.... They Mean Things which Arent Christian Friendly etc. That Doesnt mean Im a Goth *Shakes Head*

-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature.

Yes i think

-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer.

I use The Pc alot

-Makes Satanic symbols and/or violently shakes head to music.

Pfft...No

-Dances to music in a provocative or sexual manner.
Eww...No

-Expresses an interest in sex.
Ugh..No

-Masturbates

No.

-Is homosexual and/or bisexual.

No! And How Is THAT A Goth Thing?

-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include: Satanism, Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism.

Im a Christisn

-Wears pins, stickers or anything else that contains these various phrases: "I'm so gothic, I'm dead", "woe is me", "I'm a goth".

No.

-Claims to be a goth.

NO!!

Conclusion : Well This seems Paranoid, some of these Things are Gothic and The Rest are Not. I'n not a Goth and I don't worshp The Devil so I'm not a Goth. Maybe They're are just trying to look out for Christians but some of this Stuff is crazy.

~Ran

[Batgirl]

Ah ha ha I read this thing about a month ago. I think its funny. Probably my favorite part being that if you eat Count CHOCULA cereal, you're a vampire. Because ya know, if you eat Pirate's of the Carribean Cereal, you're a Pirate...or maybe you're Johnny Depp. Who knows?

[Erica]

I kind of find it funny that you don't know what masturbation means, Ran.



But back on topic.. those questions are stupid and have no way of differing goths from other people.

[ClymAngus]

well I am as they say (to a lesser extent) a goth, see I have proof. They wouldn't let me into the Victora and Albert museum if I were not;

http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/contemporary/day_record/gothic/object.php?id=44

There are some sweeping generalisations in this from someone who has taken their own pet peeve list and ascribed it to a subculture.

No offence Ran but your going "I've got more than five of these things to my name and I'm not a goth!!!" I know a fair number of goths who skirt very nicely in under the 5, but their still goths. I count most of the Christian goths friends of mine very highly indeed. People are people at the end of the day, whatever gets you through.

Is it possible that whomever this person is that they don't know what the hell their talking about? See the thing is it's all it the mind, it's a point of view a way of thinking. Not (as this person seems to think) about how frequently someone bashes the bishop.

OK quick mental game (and I do mean mental) Lets try imagining the kind of person who scores a 0 on this? They'd scare me a hell of a lot more than anyone plastered in black and white slap would.

[Edwyn]

Goths are Satan. I know this because a T-shirt I saw on the internet said so.

[Ran]

I kind of find it funny that you don't know what masturbation means, Ran.

......

I Know Now....i Just didnt understand that word lol :sweat

-Masturbates

No. (Edits 1st Post)


Ah ha ha I read this thing about a month ago. I think its funny. Probably my favorite part being that if you eat Count CHOCULA cereal, you're a vampire. Because ya know, if you eat Pirate's of the Carribean Cereal, you're a Pirate...or maybe you're Johnny Depp. Who knows?


I Think Thats Funny ^^


Yeah Clym, People are People :) but I still don't describe myself as a Goth ^^ Some People may have some things on that List but that doesnt make them a Goth either. If people want to be a Goth then they are a Goth ^^

~Ran

[hideko_dahlia]

*laughing waaay too hard* So I read this outloud to my friend and we were both dissolving into giggles. It's sad to me, but a lot of people believe this sort of thing! My mom would probably think a lot like this (although she is, admittedly, muuuuuch more liberal than I usually give her credit for. She's super-religious, though...) I must, however argue on a few things.


Please excuse the rantyness. =D I mean no harm.



Gothic (or goth) is a very obscure ('obscure' is defined as 'not readily noticed or seen'... I'm pretty sure that people who really are goths are usually fairly noticiable...) and often dangerous culture that young teenagers are prone to participating in.
The gothic culture leads young, susceptible minds into an imagined world of evil, darkness, and violence. Please seek immediate attention through counselling, prayer, and parental guidance to rid your child of Satan's temptations if five or more of the following are applicable to your child:

First. No. That's the incorrect definition of goth/gothic! I'm in a class right now about the gothic revival in the late 18th early 19th century. Gothic, originally, was a type of architecture. Much later the definition came to encompass the anti-popular-culture subcultures. (Anti as in the opposite of, not necessairly against.) Second. ARGH. *rants about religious extremists*

Oh boy. Now for the fun part.

-Frequently wears black clothing.
Yup. It's more professional looking.
-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts.
Showing support, yo! But yeah, it's because Hot Topic turned into the new goth store and they've got the shirts. Hence oh no it's bad!

-Wears any odd, silver jewelry or symbols. Some of these include: reversed crosses, pentagrams, pentacles, ankhs or various other Satanic worshipping symbols.
... Most of the Goth-y people I know wear normal crosses......
-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos.
OH NO! EAR PIERCINGS! How scandalous!
-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Marilyn Manson claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against the Lord. Please discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.)
Marilyn Manson is one of the most intelligent people on the planet at the moment, thank you very much. He has been one of the top people in performative personalities.

-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the Bible, prayer, church or sports.
What happened to the importance of the creation of sacred art and music in the Church, huh?

-Is suicidal and/or depressed.
Yup. Because you can really pick whether or not you have a chemical imbalance.
-Cuts, burns or partakes in any other method of self-mutilation. (This is a Satanic ritual that uses pain to detract from the light of God and His love. Please seek immediate attention for this at your local mental health center.)
Okay, is it just me, or was self-flagellation in Opus Dei sanctioned by the Catholic Church not long ago? Seems like we've got some double standards here.
-Complains of boredom.
Just like every other person on the planet.
-Sleeps too excessively or too little.
Again, like every other person on the planet.

-Dislikes sunlight or any other form of light. (This pertains to vampires promoting the idea that His light is of no use.)
Wait, did that just tell me vampires exist?!
-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.
... It's called being a teenager.

-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child may speak to evil sprits through meditation.)
*starts laughing really hard*
-Insists on spending time with friends while unaccompanied by an adult.
-Disregards authority figures; teachers, priests, nuns and elders are but a few examples of this.
Again, being a teenager.

-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of this.
My childhood was apparently very Satanic. I always like Count Chocula and the Count on Sesame Street.
-Drinks blood or expresses an interest in drinking blood. (Vampires believe this is how to attain Satan. This act is very dangerous and should be stopped immediately.)
... What vampires have YOU been talking to?! You don't attain Satan. And no duh it's dangerous, it's very bad for your health to drink too much blood! (Actually. It is pretty unhealthy. Don't drink too much blood, kids.)
-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources. (Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.)
Again, my childhood has just been labelled Satanic.
-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature.
So what about Oregon Trail?!
-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer.
... The world revolves around technology, and children adapt more quickly than adults. Forgive us youngin's for being flexible.
-Makes Satanic symbols and/or violently shakes head to music.
History lesson! The Rock'n'roll ,\,,/ thing was originally a fertility symbol because it looked like a ram. Rams were the symbol of fertility, but when Christianity took over, they gave the Devil horns and called it a Sataic symbol. So Rock'n'Roll means YEAH you're fertile!

-Expresses an interest in sex.
Like any normal human with hormones.
-Masturbates
Like any normal human with hormones.
-Is homosexual and/or bisexual.
*sigh* not even gonna start.
-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include: Satanism, Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism.
Bhudda would not be happy about that comment! It's the most peaceful religion. Can't think of any wars the Bhuddists were behind...

If five or more of these apply to your child, please intervene immediately. The gothic culture is dangerous and Satan thrives within it. If any of these problems persist, enlist your child into your local mental health center.
And if you've seen the movie "SAVED" you know how well that works. >_>


And Rant mode is off. =D

Anyway. Yeah. I mean, it's cool if you wanna be religious or whatever, but narrow-mindedness is just refusing to see the world as it is.

[Nikki Wright]

I think that page was intended as a sarcastic joke [hence the Count Chocula reference, among other things], and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

But, yeah, people who do believe those things are narrow-minded idiots who take things a bit too far.

[Moose]

Mmm mmm, needs to get me a bowl of that Count Dracula cereal. With real bits of human flesh!

[ClymAngus]

*laughing waaay too hard*

It fills my heart, to see such enthusiasm from the youth. Not bread to follow, but to lead. Unto this endeavor I forsee a bright future.

For where there is doubt, there is also freedom. :)

[Sirius]

Oh I remember this! I read it a while back (It must ahve been months ago.) It's so rediculous! hideko_dahlia pretty much summed up anything I was going to say, so I won't do the play by play at the risk or sounding repetative.


If any of these problems persist, enlist your child into your local mental health center.

I'm rather keen on anyone who takes this seriously to take action on this suggestion, because once they get there and explain their childs situation...

(i.e. "You have to help me! My kid wants to go out with her friends alone, she wears black clothes, she's always on the internet, plays video games, watches cable, and eats count dracula cereal! You've got to have a program here to cure her, right?!?!11!)

...The nice doctors can take said parent into a special white padded room and fix her up right so that there are less confusions between "Goth" and "Anyone who did not pop out of a 50's sitcom" because the only person who would score below a five would have to either moronic or part of the Brady Bunch.

[Matt Alan]

I kind of find it funny that you don't know what masturbation means, Ran.



Thats a board game right? Like, "Don't Wake Daddy" and "Hi Ho CherryO", yes?

I AM SO CONFUSED @_@

[MorningStar Smiles]

Ugh -_-; what I really hate about people who write articles like these are the bad stereotype they fuel that makes all Christians look like they're narrow-minded and naive. Not cool.

Although I can understand this person's concern for kids getting mixed up in bad stuff I think some of their "symptoms" were just flat out stupid. If parents took more part and responsibility in their kids' lives and how they behave, they wouldn't have to blame their kids turning messed up on other things, labels, or people. I think whoever wrote this had their heart in the right place with their concern... their brain just wasn't fully present at the time.

On a side note: yuck Matt! I used to play Hi Ho CherryO when I was kid! Thanks for sticking a bad connotation to it. /sarcasm :P

On a side side note: I scored a 6 and if any label was attached to me I'd probably be considered as a cross between a prep and a geek XD

[Klaymen1]

Goths? Is it 1998?

[Cheshire]

I saw this thing about a few yaers back, I think, and I still think it's as ridiculous now as I did then(eating Count Chocula makes you a goth and Buddhism and Hinduism are "dangerous cult religions"? XD). Like Erica said, these 'questions' are just plain stupid.

Who cares about stereotypes and whatnot, anyway? As long as no one's hurting anyone, just let 'em be and do whatever they want.

[Steven Mane]

Let's see. Hmmm. I wear a cowboy hat. I listen to Waylon Jennings and George Jones. I go to church.

But, according to THOSE people, I'm Gothic?! I've got a Johnny Cash shirt. So I admire Satan?!

[ClymAngus]

Goths? Is it 1998?

No, it's an 80's thing, kind of like deely boppers but less fun.

[shadowsvoice]

Haha I just love stereotypes. I will file this under "Reform what you do not understand!"

[HyperFaerie]

Ah ha ha I read this thing about a month ago. I think its funny. Probably my favorite part being that if you eat Count CHOCULA cereal, you're a vampire. Because ya know, if you eat Pirate's of the Carribean Cereal, you're a Pirate...or maybe you're Johnny Depp. Who knows?

Alycia told me once of this college out by her that thought of Lucky Charms as Satan's cereal. They viewed it as a pagan food or something...because we all know that leprachauns work for Satan...and Satan loves hearts, stars, clovers, blue moons, pots of gold, rainbows and red balloons o.o

...This really had nothing to do with the topic on hand...Laura just made me LoL :D

[Amped2Flash]

What a bunch of crap.

I'm not even gonna begin to take apart the things they say in that.

But if it is a joke.... Bravo.... Bravo.

[Steven Mane]

Alycia told me once of this college out by her that thought of Lucky Charms as Satan's cereal. They viewed it as a pagan food or something...because we all know that leprachauns work for Satan...and Satan loves hearts, stars, clovers, blue moons, pots of gold, rainbows and red balloons o.o
:D

You forgot "horseshoes". :-P

[Mat Growcott]

Seriously...This is just one of those things that i stare at thinking... "OMG...MORON". This isn't the worse thing i've seen though.

The Tragic Life of Freddie Mercury (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Rock-n-Roll/freddie_mercury.htm)

This, and an article in watchtower, is the only time i've really thought "The sooner we get rid of religion, the better". Some people are extremists i know, and many religious people are law abiding, calm, intelligent people. But articles like this show what it CAN do.

Meh, off topic, but what are you gonna do :O.

[ClymAngus]

I think some lessons are needed in layout. Looks like someone's loaded up the HTML cannon and fired it at some webspace again. -.-

It's up but that's more by luck than by design.

[Seibei Mifune]

well, i'm sorry for this, but...


goths are people who are afraid to face reality and run to their sanctuary for their so-called happiness in the dark corners of the room...


they are people who are afraid to stand and lets the darkness inside their hearts swallow them... they are nothing but mere childish people who has no purpose in life but to cry hysterically in one corner until death knocks on their doors...





they are very childish...





i'm sorry,but i'm only saying what's on my mind...

[Shintarou Inuzuka]

Sometimes I wonder if the people who type these things are even Christian. There's no doubt in my mind that some of them are, as I know a couple of Christians who are like the girl from the movie "Saved" -- but with the anonymity of the Internet, it's equally likely that it's a Christian who's just a complete moron as it is that it's some guy/girl who hates Christianity and wants to make it look as bad and stupid as possible. In other cases, it could be someone who just has a gripe with a certain thing, such as in this case the goth craze (and in other cases anything from anime to Harry Potter), and they're trying to play the religion card to get people to hate the same things they hate using bad research (if any at all), often fabricated (and pretty much never referenced) evidence and/or Bible passages that actually have nothing to do with the thing they're trying to get people to believe is evil so that they can hate what the person who originated the e-mail/post/website/whatever hates. Unfortunately, these make all those who take part in the religion look bad, and the majority (from what I've experienced), who are NOT like that, end up being lumped together with these idiots.

That said, I've never been into the goth craze and never plan on starting, but most of these things are things that non-goths do, and some may be attributed to other things that have nothing to do with goth culture at all.

[AllycatX]

well, i'm sorry for this, but...


goths are people who are afraid to face reality and run to their sanctuary for their so-called happiness in the dark corners of the room...


they are people who are afraid to stand and lets the darkness inside their hearts swallow them... they are nothing but mere childish people who has no purpose in life but to cry hysterically in one corner until death knocks on their doors...





they are very childish...





i'm sorry,but i'm only saying what's on my mind...

Thats a sweeping generalisation isn't it? And unfair.
My partner is a poster girl for Goth , she has a cat called Lestat, a Bauhaus Colletion, looks so much like Siouxie Sioux it's terrifying, and she's the hardest bastard I know (and I've worked pub doors) and the most positive. She's spent 9 years as the only female in the quality control department of Ford Cosworth buliding engines for formulae 1 cars, no whining no "poor old me ,lifes's so hard" bull , there's nothing she don't know about reality.

And if she wants to heap on the make up, wear black victorian dresses and bodices and be someone she can't be the other 5 days of the week cos she's too damn busy hefting engine castings then I think she's earned it.
It's bad enough having some drunken tossers shouting "Burn the witch" of a Saturday night.
I know some teeny bopper wannabes who think it's trendy to angsty deserve the flak as do the the adult "Oh look at us we're so decadent, lets drop some pills and do some charlie for kicks. " crowd.

But we all need a little sanctuary, somwhere to go, some-one else to be. Some hide themself behind the make up, leather and lace. I hide myself in videogames and books.
Each to their own.

[ClymAngus]

well, i'm sorry for this, but...

goths are people who are afraid to face reality and run to their sanctuary for their so-called happiness in the dark corners of the room...

they are people who are afraid to stand and lets the darkness inside their hearts swallow them... they are nothing but mere childish people who has no purpose in life but to cry hysterically in one corner until death knocks on their doors...

they are very childish...

i'm sorry,but i'm only saying what's on my mind...

Pffft! ah AHAHAHAHAH! Hysterical. A sub-culture that's been around for twice as long as you've been alive, I could pull this post apart but then I don't do child abuse. You're 14. Not many people I know made any sense at all at 14 me included so we'll let this one go for now. Read some books, get a clue, then get back to us. Thank you ^.^

P.S. Having been a goth for half my life (still longer than you've been alive) I notice that most of the other goths I meet are infact happier than the average person. Or at least have a better sense of humor about life. Go figure.