Smoking.

[Moose]

What are your opinions on it? Should it be completely illegal, should it just be banned in public areas, or should it be legalized everywhere? Is it immoral or is it perfectly fine? Are anti-smoking advertisments good or bad? Anything about smoking really.

It's such a big issue in America, with so many bans being put in place. I'd like to hear some of your opinions.

My views on this later, perhaps.

[Superchibi]

I think smoking is terrible, I don't even know why people smoke their first cigarette. It's annoying, tobacco smoke bothers everyone, and it doesn't just bother the people around you, but it's so bad for your lungs. That's why I'm against it. And someone could start a fire if they're too close to something while lighting their cigarette.

[Gabi Star]

Smoking can kill you.

So can a car crash.

I still drive a car. I still smoke.

Tobacco is one of America's largest industries. No smoking = no cigarettes = drop in economy.

[Windy*]

I'd like to see it banned in most public places. :D But that's already taken effect in some parts of Arizona, at least, and we're voting on a proposition this year to ban it pretty much everywhere in public.

You make a decent point, Gabi dearest, but the logic is a bit flawed. :)

Hmm... this is kind of a difficult and subjective issue. If people want to smoke, it's a personal choice; but at the same time it's one I hate because I've watched it take its toll on a number of people I know.

That aside I support a public ban because I don't think it's a choice you should force others to partake in (ie; the inhalation of cigarettes' contents), like with many other choices. It's largely a health concern with me and partially a moral one. :\

Umm... and I'm going to leave before I make myself sound REALLY stupid.

[Moose]

It's annoying, tobacco smoke bothers everyone, and it doesn't just bother the people around you, but it's so bad for your lungs.

So is the gas released from cars, but I don't see any bans on cars.


I'd like to see it banned in most public places. :D

When you say "public places" do you mean everywhere open to public, or just indoor places? Because, in my opinion, smoking bans on outdoor public facilities are complete bullshit, and I don't want to go debating and making an ass out of myself if your talking about only indoor bans.

[Windy*]

I guess that, at the least, indoor public places should be a given. I was considering outdoor spaces as well, but realize that IS a bit restricting, even if it would create a very black-and-white boundary.

I do get annoyed when I walk around campus or downtown and so many people are smoking, though, and it can be hard to escape, even outdoors. :P Those are the people I try to stay ten feet away from.

[Moose]

Thanks for clarifying Windy. I hate the idea of an outdoor ban because it's not hurting anyone because they can move 3 feet away and be perfectly fine. It's almost impossible to detect a smoker in the fresh air.

[Tom]

I smoke. I support banning smoking in indoor public places. I support anti-smoking ads. I don't think parents should smoke indoors where their kids are. I would be against making cigarettes completely illegal, though. And I think smoking outdoors is fine, as long as you're not doing it, like, five feet from an entrance/exit or something.


And someone could start a fire if they're too close to something while lighting their cigarette.
That is one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

[Chinomi]

I just want smoking to be banned in all public places (which is happening here in January). That's all I want.

[Kitty]

I agree with Chinomi. Both my mom and I are allergic to cigarette smoke, so we really don't want to be near it when we go somewhere.

But I think if people want to smoke, then they should. Just not in a public place. ^^;

[Kei]

Filthy Habit.

:/

I think the ban is in effect here already. Its really sad the effects it has on people. :(

The end

[Margo]

I think smoking should be allowed in places as long as people who don't want to be near it/smell it/be affected by it can escape it. Whether you smoke or not is your choice, just don't smoke around people who don't like the smoke >_> I don't smoke, I don't like smoke; I don't mind when people smoke as long as I can't smell the smoke XD Yaay.

[Gabi Star]

My logic isn't flawed. My point is this: people choose to do dangerous things. Let it be so.

[Chris Nagy]

Smoking is a tough one. For all intents and purposes, it is one of the most harmful things you can do to your body in the long term; it increases your risk for a number of cancers by upwards of a factor of fifty, it causes hypertension, damages normal body cells (a factor for increased cancer rates,) deposits tar in the lungs, and contains a large number of addictive chemicals (most of which are poisons.) Cigarettes have become more addictive (despite the cigarette companies "encouraging" people not to smoke, an average adult can now become hooked after 3 cigarettes thanks to an increase in the addictive chemicals in the cigarette.)

All cigarettes should be smokeless (I've heard of a few) -- the people around you are not necessarily choosing to smoke, but secondhand smoke is no less damaging. The smoke emitted from the burning tip of a cigarette contains all of the above dangers without the benefit of the filter that smokers are marginally protected by. This smoke is also several hundred times above the EPA standard for the particulate matter in the air that is needed to be considered air pollution.

That said, tobacco is too firmly entrenched to do away with, much like alcohol. But while alcohol has some small health benefits in preventing heart attack and strokes (in small quantities) as well as helping to prevent heart disease (red wine specific due to antioxidants,) smoking has no health benefits; only a laundry list of negatives.

[ClymAngus]

Ah tricky one. Thought I respect peoples right to destroy themselves in new and interesting ways, smoking can effect the health of others around the smoker. I think smoking should be banned specifically in closed spaces where the chance of trapped smoke doing so is hightened. I therefore see the public places ban as counter productive as people can still cause passive smoking damage in private clubs.

Anywhere where the smoke is carried away quickly by atmospheric conditions should still be legal, or a designated sealed and power ventilated smoking rooms should be encouraged.

The rules as they stand (In the UK) are typically British, it's so far been a touchy feely solution to a nuts and bolts problem.

[Ran]

Smoking is Stupid. I think something Has been sorted In Scotland about the Public Places Thing but Its still not good enough...Its still in Public Areas and I hate it when I accidently Breathe it In when i walk Past. I Hate Smoke.

If people want to Smoke thats up to them

But It should be Banned from Any Public Place so People can BREATHE And Smoking can Kill. Non smokers can be in Danger if they are surounded by Smoke.

Its Banned in indoor Places (i think) but what about outside? People need to Breathe.

And Yeah Smoking can Cause Fires...It depends what you do with It.


When im outside in a Public Place I try to escape from The Smoke.....It can be Hard though Ugh You want to Breathe AIR Not SMOKE ^^

~Ran

[Sachibelle]

Smoking...I can't even start a relatively intelligent conversation about it. I can't be around people who smoke, because I can smell it on them. It sound weird, I know, but it smells so terrible. I start coughing and wheezing and my throat gets sore being around them.

I want smoking to be banned in all public places, however rude smokers may find it. Smoking kills all sorts of people through second hand smoke. We all know that there are other ways to die, but is it really fair to say that somebody died due to cigarette smoke when they never touched one in their life? We can blame car fumes and car wrecks and fast food and all sorts of other things for killing ourselves, but honestly, cars have their uses. Fast food, it's the person's choice, and it doesn't effect anyone around them. Smoking effects the people around them, and has no use other than to add pleasure to the single person's life.

It's a selfish thing to say, but I break off friendships if I find one of my friends has started smoking. I refuse to be friends with a drug addict, regardless of whether it's legal or illegal. I can't stand the attitude that comes with a lot of my friends after they've started, I can't stand the smell, I can't stand the fact that they're hurting themselves like that. Besides, it's not like the tobacco companies care anything about their users other than the fact that they're bringing in so much more profit.

They call people who start smoking, "replacement smokers." Real great people, there.

I know I get really bitchy when I talk about smoking. My aunt and my grandpa died from lung cancer due to smoking. The sight of them lying helpless on the bed, watching everyone pass by them but never able to say anything, to do anything, to respond...

I wish I never had seen. They were strong people, and they were suddenly brought down by paper and tobacco. They should have lived a longer.

I know this was unorganized, and maybe not well thought out, and maybe I didn't present any good arguments or anything worthwhile...but that's my opinion, and nothing anybody can say can ever change my mind about it.

[StarvingWriter]

Isn't smoking one of the worst things you can do to your voice as a voice actor? (Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is.)

Sachibelle pretty much said everything I wanted to say. My grandmother also died of lung cancer. It was very sad, she could still be here today if she hadn't picked up smoking.

[Cheshire]

Personally, I say if someone wants to smoke, let 'em. If they're aware of the risks and harm they're causing to their body and to those around 'em, and they still choose to do so, nothing you can really do about it.

I do think it should be banned completely in public places, though. If someone wants to do it, fine. I don't have a problem with it as long as I don't have to be exposed to it.

[Kevin Gillis]

Smoking now eh? I'm a smoker. I have been for at least 4 years. Why did I start? I don't remember. Most of this post will probably sound cruel, but that's life.

Now, with a smoking ban in place for all of Ontario, I can't smoke in a restaurant or any public place. That's great. I prefer to eat my food without having to taste someone elses smoke getting in the way of my food. I even voted for that bylaw. Now, I try to be a good person. If someone says, please don't smoke around me, I won't. If you ask to not smoke in your house I won't. Ask me not to smoke in my house and I'll say 'Fuck off'. If I am with a non smoker who doesn't care, then I usually, don't try to smoke around them anyways, and if I have to then I'll go and try not to blow smoke toward them and that stuff. Smoking is my problem, I try to make it not theirs as well.

I also try to discourage other people from starting smoking. It's a hard addiction to break. The anti smoking ads are a great way to show what happens... Also, each cigarette pack, in Canada anyways, have graphic images to what smoking can do you someone. I do plan on quitting soon. Seeing how my father had to recently go into surgery for a smoking related heart problem. Many people don't know that and yet there are people in the street that come up to me and say I shouldn't smoke. Even here, some people more than likely, won't listen to the facts from a smoker. As I said before, I don't encourage smoking... not in the least.

I think that people who try and force other people to stop smoking are retarded and shouldn't push them into something they don't want to know. I consider myself a good person, but if someone says anything like "Why don't you just stop?" I'll be pissed and will more than likely be an asshole. I already know it's bad, so just stfu about it. It's my problem and not yours.

[MaNa Shuffle]

SMOKING CAN KILL YOUR VOICE DAMN IT!

Anywho. People can do what they want. Let them. I don't hate everyone who smokes.(sheesh!) and people should make more bans. Some bans like no smoking in pubs etc in Scotland. WHAT ABOUT THE PUBLIC ITSELF?
*sighs* Smoking is one of the health threat items. And I hate it. Even my High School (from Hell XDD) had smokers and I reported it (They even blew smoke at me. the pupils i mean). The Teachers didnt do anything about it. (Lazy gits)

They should be more strict about it (and sort other serious things too instead of focusing on 1 thing)

Smoking reminds me of BAD Memories.

[Kevin Gillis]

Masaka, I am well aware of what smoking does to a person voice, heart, lungs and also genitals... Smoking at school should be allowed since they are out where the bans can reach them... most schools in Canada allow it, they have a smoking area almost off the school grounds, but not quite.

[MaNa Shuffle]

What about non-smokers at School? Why should they suffer passive smoking?

I won't say anymore for now.

[Sachibelle]

Masaka, I am well aware of what smoking does to a person voice, heart, lungs and also genitals... Smoking at school should be allowed since they are out where the bans can reach them... most schools in Canada allow it, they have a smoking area almost off the school grounds, but not quite.

I disagree that smoking should be allowed at schools. It's illegal in the US for any person under 18 to purchase cigarettes, and yet they allow it anyway. I don't think it's a good thing to promote smoking in younger kids by allowing smoking places on school grounds. However, I won't say that Canada is wrong in this, because I don't really have all the facts about it, so I may just be saying empty words.

I respect you though, Gillis, in that as a smoker, you still have the decency to not smoke around people who ask you not to. You're one of the rare few I've met who actually respect other people's rights as well. It's nice to see that. <3

[Kevin Gillis]

By stopping smoking at high school, the teachers have to now worry about what can happen to the students when they leave school property. If they do leave the property, they are not on school grounds, and can smoke as much as they want.

All they need is a certain area to smoke. Like a parking lot, where the smokers know they can be without getting in trouble. There's no use in getting worked up about something you can easily avoid in the first place. As smokers tend to stay in groups.

[ClymAngus]

SMOKING CAN KILL YOUR VOICE DAMN IT!

Inversely for some actors it gives them that 2 packs a day "I don't give a shit about me or anyone else around me" voice acting growl that other "pony" voice actors just can't seem to get. Nothing wrong with cute, if that's all you can do well that's just fine, not shame in it, none what so ever, really there isn't, trust me on this ok? :)

People are going to do whatever they want to get off. Get off on not smoking and dumping friends that do? Thats cool. Get off on being a walking chimmney? that's cool too. Get off on blowing smoke into other peoples faces well THEN we might be having a moment. As long as it harms no other, do what thou will.

Oh and if we're talking about things that shouldn't go into schools, can I vote for guns to be put on the same list just above snouts please? (2100 posts woot! Go me! :) )

[Sanchu]

wow what a coincidence!! I just wrote a speech about how we should ban smoking from public places or make disignated smoking facilities since so many people are weak and can't quit.

I have tons of friends and family members who smoke, the reason why I prefer to have it gone is because of the troubles it put me through as well as many others. I'm truly amazed on how dependant americans are on tobacco XD ahaha in fact in school I had to learn the whole history of how the tobacco industry started because I live in North Carolina! ahaha yep tobacco crops everywhere.

I just would like cigarrettes smokers to be a lil more considerate. If there's a family facility please try not to smoke because no matter if your located in a different place in a resturant smoke fumes still travels. You can possibly harm a pregnant woman, a person with asthma, and children. That's all... I mean yes you have to listen to deal with the commercials (as if you can't change the channel or look away) but seriously will you die if don't smoke for a little while? or is americans that weak? sorry this is just from someone who've been studying this subject practically their whole lives.

Oh and as for young doing it (like teens and such) it's cute that you think it's cool or you wanna be like mommy and daddy or your peers say it's "cool" but seriously... why are you wasting your money on that when you could be saving your money to go to college or something..."that's stupid, I'm not going to waste my money on a higher education" some might say, I say " okay I'll see ya in the real world when your serving me my food in a non-smoking resturant"... and don't say you don't have money for it cause I came from a poor ass family where we had to survive on vienna sausages, bread, and water. I worked my ass off cause I was that dedicated, you can do the same if you really want too.

Other then that go ahead and smoke carelessly as long as ya's don't do it when you're pregnant or anything like that cause ignorance is already the bases of the world.

For those of you who are smart enough not to smoke when you're pregnant or around babies and such. Kudos for you, do what you want but we just want you to be healthy.

[Zankoku no Yami]

Filthy Habit.

:/

I think the ban is in effect here already. Its really sad the effects it has on people. :(

The end

Amen. Amen.

^^

[Kevin Gillis]

Apparently, you don't know how to read. I think you should go and read the other posts I made and maybe you won't be so biased about smokers... Also Are you calling people who smoke weak? Think of a bad habit that you have done for at least 4 years... Then try and stop. It's hard. So don't be calling me weak. Also, if you don't want to be in an area where smoking is allowed. Then get the fuck out and stop bitching about it.

[Moose]

But while alcohol has some small health benefits in preventing heart attack and strokes (in small quantities) as well as helping to prevent heart disease (red wine specific due to antioxidants,) smoking has no health benefits; only a laundry list of negatives.

I don't think anyone drinks JUST for that reason. There are much more effective ways to prevent those, people just use that as an excuse to drink. I think drinking, personally, is more dangerous. Not in terms of health exactly, but in terms of danger. When one is utterly inebriated, they have no decision making skills, rationale, or anything like that, which makes them susceptible to doing really stupid and dangerous things that could get them killed (i.e. drunk driving) The only thing that alcohol has going for it is really that it's not addictive.


Its Banned in indoor Places (i think) but what about outside? People need to Breathe.

What, you can’t move two steps? In an outdoor setting, it’s fairly hard to breath in smoke if you are more than 3 or 4 feet away.


I want smoking to be banned in all public places, however rude smokers may find it. Smoking kills all sorts of people through second hand smoke. We all know that there are other ways to die, but is it really fair to say that somebody died due to cigarette smoke when they never touched one in their life?

First off, to actually be significantly hurt by second hand smoke, you have to be exposed to it constantly, like being a waitress at a smoking restaurant, or having a parent that smokes in the car and house. Walking by someone smoking in a park will barely affect you unless you have some deadly DEADLY allergy to smoking.


It's a selfish thing to say, but I break off friendships if I find one of my friends has started smoking. I refuse to be friends with a drug addict, regardless of whether it's legal or illegal.

Wow, you would abandon a good friend for something as trivial as smoking? Just because they smell a little worse? Just wait until you are 21 and your friends start drinking. Your gonna have to be friends with 15 year olds for the rest of your life.


Besides, it's not like the tobacco companies care anything about their users other than the fact that they're bringing in so much more profit.

They call people who start smoking, "replacement smokers." Real great people, there.

A lot of marketers are like that. They just don’t deal with death like the tobacco companies did. But if Coke killed people, I can bet the marketing team would find a word like that for their dead customers. Almost no company actually cares about their customers, just their money.

And Gillis basically mirrored my thoughts on sanchu’s post.

[ClymAngus]

Battle lines drawn eh? As ronnie Mc d says: Do do do do do I'm lovin' it.

Hey G, enhance your calm. It's all about where you get your action, some people get their action from leaf. Others from putting forward a long winding and heavily one sided arguments. It's all good. People getting joy from simple pleasures, it's all very 60's.

[Kevin Gillis]

Heh... I thought I went a bit overboard, but calling smokers weak? Kind of a soft spot with me... Since I have been planning to quit for quite some time. Also, some of her other comments made me mad... She claims that we are ignorant, but the ignorant one is her.

[ClymAngus]

Heh... I thought I went a bit overboard, but calling smokers weak? Kind of a soft spot with me... Since I have been planning to quit for quite some time. Also, some of her other comments made me mad... She claims that we are ignorant, but the ignorant one is her.

Well, yes a whole lot of people could have put a whole lot of stuff better. Something we're all guilty of from time to time eh? Ah, the youth of today, so engorged by the language of success that they never truely learn the meaning of failure. I try not to judge people on their personal choices I find it colours the mind, we are all so much more that just one facet of our being. Smoke if you want. Give up if it gives you a thrill, eather way in 200 years who's really going to care eather way? :)

[Kevin Gillis]

Smoke if you want, give up if it gives you a thrill, eather way in 200 years who's really going to care eather way?

I agree with you 100% there... unless you become famous... Look at Shakesphere.

Youth? There are 10 years between us ya old fart >.> Anyways, point made I'm done here for now

[Sachibelle]

Wow, you would abandon a good friend for something as trivial as smoking? Just because they smell a little worse? Just wait until you are 21 and your friends start drinking. Your gonna have to be friends with 15 year olds for the rest of your life.


It's more than trivial to me. I've already watched two of my closest family members die due to it, and I'm not about to watch it happen to those people again, so I give them a choice.

Besides, if they're allowed to make the choice to start smoking, I'm allowed to make the choice to stop talking to them. I already know I'm a bitch, and there's no need to remind me of that, thank you very much.

I've told all of my friends my feelings on smoking, and I've told them that there is no way in hell that I'll ever approve of it. I've told my friends I'll break off friendships over it.

So it's not something out of the blue, "Sorry, you're smoking, bye." It's one of the first things I tell people about myself. If they don't respect it, then they don't need to be friends with me.

I'm not saying I'll never speak to them again. I'm saying that I'm not going to talk to them unless they decide they want to quit. If they want to quit, I'll be right there to help them again.

So there's my uncivilized response, in my own defense. Bitch or no bitch, I'm not gonna compromise my behavior because somebody thinks it's "not a nice thing to do." I don't think purposely taking time away from spending time with the ones you love is a very nice thing to do either.


Heh... I thought I went a bit overboard, but calling smokers weak? Kind of a soft spot with me... Since I have been planning to quit for quite some time. Also, some of her other comments made me mad... She claims that we are ignorant, but the ignorant one is her.

I dunno, I don't think smokers are weak or ignorant, but I still don't support them 100%. I think people are people regardless of their choices, but not everyone is going to approve of the choices you make. (Like most won't approve of my choice to stop being friends with people who start smoking.) But that's life. Take it or leave it. <3

[Cheshire]

All they need is a certain area to smoke. Like a parking lot, where the smokers know they can be without getting in trouble. There's no use in getting worked up about something you can easily avoid in the first place. As smokers tend to stay in groups.
My problem with this is that most students who attend high school are under the age limit to purchase cigarettes, so from my viewpoint, it's just encouraging those who are underage to smoke.

[Kevin Gillis]

Heh... When I was in high school I smoked... I just had someone run and buy we them. When I hit 19 I was the one buying them. It was a good and illegal way to keep smokes in your own pocket. Sometimes the parents are the ones to blame and will infact buy the smokes for the kid. However, it isn't illegal for underaged kids to smoke, only to buy them.

[Cheshire]

Heh... When I was in high school I smoked... I just had someone run and buy we them. When I hit 19 I was the one buying them. It was a good and illegal way to keep smokes in your own pocket. Sometimes the parents are the ones to blame and will infact buy the smokes for the kid. However, it isn't illegal for underaged kids to smoke, only to buy them.
Ah, true, forgot about that last bit. Pardon me, it's late. ^^;

[Demios]

Heh... I thought I went a bit overboard, but calling smokers weak? Kind of a soft spot with me... Since I have been planning to quit for quite some time. Also, some of her other comments made me mad... She claims that we are ignorant, but the ignorant one is her.

Did she offend you that much? She infact is not ignorant. I think you took her words the wrong way. I know her personally and she doesn't mean to offend anyone. She can't have children or breathe in severe weather conditions because of cigarette fumes harmed her while she was in the wome... She wasn't calling ones who TRY to quit weak but ones whom don't and are very abusive when they can't get a smoke. She has a strange way of talking (she speaks up to 4 languages and english isn't her first language)

so please don't take her words to heart. She sounds harsh or critical but she doesn't mean it. She's actually the nicest person you'll meant as well as an over achievor.... She's been through alot. Also, I'm sure she herself would apologize once she reads this. So if you don't mind Please don't call her ignorant. She was only calling those who TRY to harm others Ignorant not just regular smokers.

Respectfully yours
Demios.

[Doki-Chan]

I personaly don't mind smokers at all. I personaly have never smoked before nor do I plan on trying to smoke any time soon. However, a majority of my friends smoke, members of my family too, so I don't really care if people smoke around me. always on my 15 min breaks at work, I will go and hang out with a couple other people I work with and they sit down and smoke and I just talk to them and we have a good time. In other words, I don't mind smokers or being around people while they smoke just as long as they don't expect me to do the same.

[Tom]

Breaking off your friendship with someone because they smoke is not only bitchy, it's selfish. If they're not smoking around you, then you shouldn't have a problem with it other than being concerned about their health. It's not like they're sacrificing babies or something. Frankly, cutting off ties with someone just because they smoke is fucking ridiculous. That's drastic, irrational and just plain dramatic. Really.

I would never want to be friends with someone who would do that. What a horrible way to treat people. Passing judgement on someone like that is just immature and, yes, most certainly ignorant. Ugh. I swear, "bitch" hardly covers it.


She infact is not ignorant. I think you took her words the wrong way. I know her personally and she doesn't mean to offend anyone.
Categorizing smokers as a uniform group of people who don't know how to behave is pretty ignorant. I'm sorry, but she has admitted that she is a bitch about this and shouldn't be surprised if she offended anyone. Reading what she said, literally, makes me feel disgusted.


She can't have children or breathe in severe weather conditions because of cigarette fumes harmed her while she was in the wome...
Well that is not the fault of smokers. That is the fault of her mother. She should be a fucking friend and encourage her friends to quit smoking while nurturing every other freaking thing relevant to their bond and relationship, instead of focusing on that one thing and writing people off like they're freaking worthless. I actually feel happy for the friends she's abandoned, because they don't need to be wasting their time on someone as horrible and dramatic as that. It really doesn't say much about her respect for people's rights or her judge of character in general.

[Chinomi]

I totally agree what Tom says.

My mom smokes. Am I going to de-mom her just because she makes one bad decision? Of course not. Everyone makes mistakes. EVERYONE. That's like breaking up with your girlfriend because she failed a test. She failed ONE test so she's too stupid for you.

NO.

[Kevin Gillis]

Did she offend you that much? She infact is not ignorant. I think you took her words the wrong way. I know her personally and she doesn't mean to offend anyone. She can't have children or breathe in severe weather conditions because of cigarette fumes harmed her while she was in the wome... She wasn't calling ones who TRY to quit weak but ones whom don't and are very abusive when they can't get a smoke. She has a strange way of talking (she speaks up to 4 languages and english isn't her first language)

so please don't take her words to heart. She sounds harsh or critical but she doesn't mean it. She's actually the nicest person you'll meant as well as an over achievor.... She's been through alot. Also, I'm sure she herself would apologize once she reads this. So if you don't mind Please don't call her ignorant. She was only calling those who TRY to harm others Ignorant not just regular smokers.

When I first read your post, I was stuck with a choice. Do I want to be really mean, or should I try to be nice. I'll stick with neutral. Now, you have graced me with you second post, by defending her. Noble. I do feel sorry for you. That must be a very bad feeling.

Here's the mean part. I will smoke where ever I am able too. I will go away from other non smokers, but if they move to me and expect me to go somewhere else. I won't. I am a good person, but if you bring it on yourself, then I won't bother with it.

Smoking around kids I don't usually do. When I was at my friends place with his one year old running around... Never did I smoke in the same room as him. Now that he's 3 it's harder to be in a different room than him, but he knows that we are smoking and can't climb up on who ever is smoking.

I think I covered it all...

[Deiji]

Smoking is really terrible over here. I read somewhere that over 80% of the population of the UK smoke, and i believe it. When i went to school, just about all the girls smoked, and i even saw kids younger than 12 smoking!

For that, i WISH it could be banned altogether.. but i know it won't be. I know that the life expectancy is just going to go WAAAAY down by the time i'm 30 or 40. It's already started!

As for me, i'm a chronic asthmatic. Just being near someone that smells of cigarette smoke gives me breathing problems! And i have to admit, when i was 13, i smoked 1 cigarette. I was blackmailed by my brother's cousin at the time.. even though i no thats no excuse. I was also curious..and young. I would never even look at a cigarette in my life and think "I want one of those" EVER! Smoking contributed to the death of my father (along with alcohol, but thats a different subject).

Honestly, i hate cigarettes! And i feel very sorry for people who smoke them.

[Demios]

Okay. Lets make a couple of things clear. Sanchu is my wife so this explains our close relationship and knowledge of her. Lets not make assumptions okay. "Bitch" is commonly used to refer to someone who is on the opposing side, as is the word "asshole". Everyone is going to have an opinion whether it is negative or positive, there is a reason why people have it. She was refering to people who would call her bitch. If you reinforce this fact, then who are you? The other person.

It is not her mothers fault she is the way she is. Neither of her parents smoke, her mom was exposed to a massive amount of secondhand smoke due to the area she lived. So please dont blame it on her parents.

My stance on smoking in general: It is outlawed in public places in Australia and New Zealand. Personally it would be nice if it were the same way in all countries so that people who don't smoke wont have to suffer the same consequences as they. Many people in my own family smoke and I love them. I do not hate smokers, I just disagree with it's exposure and negative influence to society, that is all.

[Superchibi]

Quote: That is one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Yeah, that was pretty stupid! xD
I was just trying to come up with an extra argument but I ended up showing my weird and stupid side.

[Sanchu]

WHA?!! I DIDN'T DE-MOM OR DE-FRIEND ANYONE?!!!! DEMIOS WHAT'S GOING ON?!!! YOU SHOULDN'T DE-FAMILY OR FRIEND ANYONE FOR SOMETHING SO MINOR AS SMOKING!!!! NO NO NO THERE'S BEEN A HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING!!!!!

Okay guys I typed that in a hurry and I'm sorry that my husband intervened. What I meant was "you shouldn't let it take over your life"...

I'm sorry for causing such a ruckus and yes it was my own ignorance for not proof reading and making it sound biased. Yes yes that was wrong of me, but it's not what I meant.

I'm sorry for causing such a commotion. Please do forgive me. Oh and my mama doesn't smoke and even if she did I love her no matter what...infact you should love everyone no matter what, we're all important wether we smoke or not.

I didn't mean to offend anyone but like Tom said, it was my own fault but please tom, try to understand that I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I'll try to make it up to you...OH and about my husband...sigh... well.... I'm sorry about that too... he's just being defensive cause he's... well my husband.

So to all of you out there I'm sorry for making myself sound like a "bitch" but I really didn't mean to. I was typing in a hurry and I should've proof read and been more considerate myself. Smokers AREN'T ignorant or weak... What I meant was if you are cruel and abusive towards people because they don't. (the same in viseversa) ...oh as for the personal info.....that shouldn't have even been posted out. *annoyed of certain hub*

SO once again my apologies to everyone.

[Tom]

Sanchu, you don't have to apologize to me. You were just being honest. Anyway, it's probably best if we just drop the matter. I've responded to your PM, so if you want to talk more about this, feel free to reply to me through that. Anyway, you can relax.

[Sanchu]

*nods* okay. Thanks. *goes nibbles on white chocolate*

[Sachibelle]

You know, I already said I don't need anyone reminding me I'm a bitch. It's more than a minor thing to me. It's something I honestly cannot handle. I fly off the handle when I find out somebody's smoking, and I know that if I stay around them, I'm going to end up hurting them worse than I would if I just left.

I have my own reasons for leaving people when they start smoking. I'm not passing judgement, I'm just saying that I have to leave. I have issues, and I'm fully aware of them, and I'm doing my best to try and deal with them. And speaking of passing judgement, hmm.

And besides, as I've said, I'm more than willing to help them if they ever want to stop. I'm not defriending them permanently. But I cannot handle being around them. I don't care whether or not they're smoking around me. I can't handle it.

I find it kind of irritating to post in this thread when I've done my best to stay civilized and not attack anybody, but in turn get attacked. I understand debates are meant to cause controversy, but I think some of the things people have been saying have been a little much, and I don't mean just against me.

:/ I think I remember why I never liked posting in threads like these.

[Johnny]

Yeah, smoking is a pretty bad habit.

Hell, I'd say ban the cigs and make marijuana legal instead (at least then you could put in in brownies and not smoke it).

[HyperFaerie]

This is just a lot of personal views, take it as you want. It's not meant to be mean or attacking anyone. It's hard to get things out over the net with out sounding like a bitch. ANYWAY

As far as banning it in public places: go for it. If you want to ban it in a restaurant...say like Bennigans or Olive Garden, or something like that, have a freaking ball. However, I don't support forcing the ban on privately owned or family owned places. It's not right.

My mother's friend owns a bar in Philadelphia. He's loosing ALOT of business because of the stupid ban. It's not fair to him or his family that their bar should suffer becuase non-smokers get their panties in a wad way to easily.

Now for some personal views on non-smokers and smokers.

Let me just state this here and now: Smokers are people too. I am a smoker; however, I will not smoke around people who aren't because (no offence to nons) you guys are down right irritating.

I've heard every, and I do mean every, "YOU SHOULD STOP SMOKING ITS BAD FOR JOO!!!!OMGROLLERCOSTER!!111" speech there is. You choose to not smoke, I respect that. I choose to smoke; I'd like the same respect back.

Yes, I do understand that some people are allergic to smoke. I won't smoke around you. Yes, I understand that it is indeed a bad habit, but it's a habit that keeps me from killing all the idiots I'm forced to deal with every day. Let me have my coffin nail and enjoy it.

I don't follow you around harping on your habits; don't harp on me about mine. I won't smoke near you if you don't like it. I'll even leave the room, or go outside, or even wait till I'm in my car! But if I announce that I'm leaving to go smoke, don't follow me and go on with your stupid little speeches. I've head them all, and they're all the same. Leave me to my cancer and I'll leave you to your habits.

And that's another thing. If a non-smoker gets into a smoker's car; don't bitch at them if they smoke. Roll the damn window down. It's not your car. You chose to get into it, deal with it. Next time, you drive. Sorry...just a personal pet peeve. It's my car. A private place. Don't tell me what I can and can't do in my own private vehicle. If you ask nicely, I'll put it out, but bitching and making fake coughing noises is just a great way for me to chain smoke :D



Again: Smokers are people too.:hug

[Chris Nagy]

I don't think anyone drinks JUST for that reason. There are much more effective ways to prevent those, people just use that as an excuse to drink. I think drinking, personally, is more dangerous. Not in terms of health exactly, but in terms of danger. When one is utterly inebriated, they have no decision making skills, rationale, or anything like that, which makes them susceptible to doing really stupid and dangerous things that could get them killed (i.e. drunk driving) The only thing that alcohol has going for it is really that it's not addictive.
Alcohol is not addictive? What do you call alcoholics? Alcohol is addictive, just not as much as cigarettes. Withdrawl from alcohol is more severe than from cigarettes, though, and people have died from simply trying to quit drinking. But that's not the point. Whether or not anyone drinks just for that reason (and you'd be surprised how many health conscious people do have wine with dinner,) alcohol has a small health benefit when used correctly. Cigarettes have no health benefit. Any benefit that people think they attain from smoking is actually just alleviating problems that the addiction put there in the first place.

Don't get me wrong. If people want to smoke, fine. If people want to drink, fine. If people want to stab themselves with knives, fine. But don't candy-coat it, don't make excuses for it, don't make it out to be anything less than what it really is: if you smoke regularly, you are addicted to a poison that will kill you eventually if a bus or a stray bullet doesn't catch you first. Your final years will be racked with pain and characterized by a drastically reduced quality of living.

And frankly, I'm going to step on some toes and say that I do feel that addiction is a weakness, a loss of self-control, and I can't understand how any sane person can abide by having a portion of their will subverted by any substance.

[Ran]

Smoking at school should be allowed

Thats Crazy!! I don't think our High school was allowed to have people smoking but They let them get away with it or Ignore it.

Smoking at High School Shouldnt be allowed. It Not fair for The Non-Smokers.

~Ran

[ig.]

Smoking's a generally unkempt activity and wholly unhealthy, but let's face it - what good vice isn't?

[ClymAngus]

Dorian Gray couldn't have put it better. Mr Ig :)

"Your final years will be racked with pain and characterized by a drastically reduced quality of living." Hang on, isn't that most people these days? I mean we not playing a game of moral death top trumps here;

"My lung cancer has a pain level of four"
"That tops my stroke with only two, pity you weren't testing me on mental anguish as I would have trumped you by one." Errrr, no.

There's no good way to die Mr Chris. We all have to pay the fiddler, there's just no point bitching about it when he calls you out. On that (and correct me if i'm wrong) I think we agree.

[Matt Cruea]

I'm a little late on this thread, so let's start from the top.


So is the gas released from cars, but I don't see any bans on cars.

Ah, but you do see regulations on cars, not to mention entire movements in and out of the government to move from a fuel-dependent society to something more clean.


When you say "public places" do you mean everywhere open to public, or just indoor places? Because, in my opinion, smoking bans on outdoor public facilities are complete bullshit

I would personally say that this should be up to the owner of the land. If McDonald's doesn't want you smoking in the line, they don't want you smoking in the playset, then it's well within their rights to tell you to not smoke on their sidewalk.


Masaka, I am well aware of what smoking does to a person voice, heart, lungs and also genitals... Smoking at school should be allowed since they are out where the bans can reach them... most schools in Canada allow it, they have a smoking area almost off the school grounds, but not quite.

Why are you "well aware" of what it does to genitals, Suley? : P

Also, I completely disagree with the notion of smoking facilities sponsored by the school. As the mere notion of it is essentially saying, "Hey, kids, we know you're not old enough, but go break the law anyway!"


Breaking off your friendship with someone because they smoke is not only bitchy, it's selfish. If they're not smoking around you, then you shouldn't have a problem with it other than being concerned about their health. It's not like they're sacrificing babies or something. Frankly, cutting off ties with someone just because they smoke is fucking ridiculous. That's drastic, irrational and just plain dramatic. Really.

I would never want to be friends with someone who would do that. What a horrible way to treat people. Passing judgement on someone like that is just immature and, yes, most certainly ignorant. Ugh. I swear, "bitch" hardly covers it.


While I can't say I agree with stopping relationships due to smoking, I would say that, in principle, I agree with her notion. If I don't want to hang out with someone because they're on a downward spiral, I certainly have that right. I have more of a personal bias against alcohol than I do cigarettes (though God knows I've inhaled my share of second-hand smoke. Thanks, mom), and I have, indeed, severed ties to people due to their excessive and, at the time, underage drinking.

It's the same principle. If someone is a Republicruea and I'm a Demomatt, and I disagree with their major views, why should I hang out with them? Shallow or not.



And frankly, I'm going to step on some toes and say that I do feel that addiction is a weakness, a loss of self-control, and I can't understand how any sane person can abide by having a portion of their will subverted by any substance.

I'll step on those same toes with ya, Chris.

So now my true views on the situation:

*I'm all for indoor bans.

*I'm also all for outdoor bans, though this should be on a location-basis, wherein the owner has the final call.

*I'm also for nation-wide bans. While I'm certain that this will never happen, I'd like to see the Government ban anything proven to be addictive or harmful to your body.

*It's certainly not immoral to smoke, it is, however, completely immoral for companies to sell cigarettes.

*Anti-cigarette advertising is ANNOYING. As someone who doesn't get affected by adverts all that much, I don't think it does a great job.

However, as a non-smoker, do take my words with a grain of FINE PROCESSED TOBACCY.

[Chris Nagy]

Hang on, isn't that most people these days? I mean we not playing a game of moral death top trumps here; Most people are not healthy. Healthy people, by and large, do not experience a drastic decrease in the standard of living; they just have a massive coronary one day in their old age and keel over. Some of them do it at night, during their sleep. I can't tell you that it is painless, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's quicker than wasting away.


"My lung cancer has a pain level of four"
"That tops my stroke with only two, pity you weren't testing me on mental anguish as I would have trumped you by one." Errrr, no. Cute. It's a deflection from the argument, but cute. Ask around; find out how many people would rather die quickly than be bedridden with a terminal disease that has them relieving themselves in a pan.


There's no good way to die Mr Chris. We all have to pay the fiddler, there's just no point bitching about it when he calls you out. On that (and correct me if i'm wrong) I think we agree. We don't agree. While death may be an absolute and generally undesirable, the idea that one can look at a certain death and say "I certainly do not want to die that way" suggests that there exists certain kinds of death that are preferable, or better, than others. But if you want to get really technical, the death itself is all the same-- the question is whether you'd prefer the final act to take months or years of a relatively horrible existence, or whether you'd simply prefer "The End" tacked on abruptly to the end of a long life.

[ClymAngus]

Most people are not healthy. Healthy people, by and large, do not experience a drastic decrease in the standard of living; they just have a massive coronary one day in their old age and keel over. Some of them do it at night, during their sleep. I can't tell you that it is painless, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's quicker than wasting away.

I agree with you that healthy people live longer, I do not however agree that the healthy nessessarily die more quickly or in less pain statistically speaking. If you have evedence to the contrary please quote your sources. As we get better at curing and sustaining medically the only diseases left are the ones that are incurable and prolonged. Cell degradation, your cells cease to be able to subdivide without making mistakes in the DNA code (and they regenerate more slowly). A healthy life does not prevent this from happening it only delays the inevitable.



Cute. It's a deflection from the argument, but cute.

Well naturally, all work and no play makes jack a dull devils avocate. Many a true word spoken in jest sir.



Ask around; find out how many people would rather die quickly than be bedridden with a terminal disease that has them relieving themselves in a pan.

We don't agree. While death may be an absolute and generally undesirable, the idea that one can look at a certain death and say "I certainly do not want to die that way" suggests that there exists certain kinds of death that are preferable, or better, than others. But if you want to get really technical, the death itself is all the same-- the question is whether you'd prefer the final act to take months or years of a relatively horrible existence, or whether you'd simply prefer "The End" tacked on abruptly to the end of a long life.

Perferable, yes. Better, I'll grant you. But never "good". It's all such a terrible waste at the end of the day.

While healthy living reduces your chances of suffering from some truely horrible diseases like lung cancer, you can lead the heal;thiest life possible and still end up getting a cronic disease that garentees a prolonged and painful death.

[Gabi Star]

Lets talk about the pro's to smoking! :D

1) It curbs my appitite. If I feel like chowing down when I'm not even hungry, a cigarette kicks my stomach back into its senses. I dont smoke in order to stop myself from getting nurishment. But for instance, right now, I am eating an entire bag of popcorn. Had I smoked a cigarette instead, the extra 156,189,913512.6 calories would still be in a little cardboard box in my pantry.

2) Helps my screaming. Yes, I scream. A lot. At venues with the band, that is. Smoking causes stress in the upper section of the vocal cords, which are used for screaming. The stress creates a "rockier" sound, so my screams sound better.

3) Nice little tobacco high. Makes you feel a little happier when you're pissed. :D

4) Oral fixation (shut up, guys. we're not 13 anymore). While I could just as easily eat a lolipop or chew some ice, smoking a cigarette keeps my mind at ease my giving my mouth something to do.

5) It makes me look cool.

[Matt Cruea]

1) It curbs my appitite. If I feel like chowing down when I'm not even hungry, a cigarette kicks my stomach back into its senses. I dont smoke in order to stop myself from getting nurishment. But for instance, right now, I am eating an entire bag of popcorn. Had I smoked a cigarette instead, the extra 156,189,913512.6 calories would still be in a little cardboard box in my pantry.

This is called willpower and your dependency on cigarettes says a lot about you as a perosn and not their effects.


2) Helps my screaming. Yes, I scream. A lot. At venues with the band, that is. Smoking causes stress in the upper section of the vocal cords, which are used for screaming. The stress creates a "rockier" sound, so my screams sound better.

So by irrevocably damaging your vocal chords, you are therein rendered cooler? If you don't have the talent to do something, don't do it.


3) Nice little tobacco high. Makes you feel a little happier when you're pissed. :D

Stop being such a drama queen and learn to not have drug dependency.


4) Oral fixation (shut up, guys. we're not 13 anymore). While I could just as easily eat a lolipop or chew some ice, smoking a cigarette keeps my mind at ease my giving my mouth something to do.

But you said yourself you could just as easily chew ice or something. Reason number four is thereby rendered invalid.


5) It makes me look cool.

There is absolutely NOTHING that could make you look cool.

[Gabi Star]

Hooray! Matt doesn't understand sarcasm!

[shadowsvoice]

My mom smokes and shes getting sick from it, her sister almost died from it. I say make it illegal and get rid of it. Thats how I feel.

[Gabi Star]

I'm also for nation-wide bans. While I'm certain that this will never happen, I'd like to see the Government ban anything proven to be addictive or harmful to your body.


That might be dumber than the "smoking causes fires" comment.

[Tom]

I disagree with a "nationwide ban". The government interferes far too much already and it's ridiculous. Stop making shit illegal. Almost ANYTHING can be used to harm oneself and almost anything can become habitual and there's nothing the government can do to change that. The government should protect its citizens from doing direct and immediate physical or life threatening harm to each other, but what one does to oneself is one's own choice.

Where does it end if the government starts making everything illegal instead of managing problems and providing alternatives such as treatment or support?

What if candy was made illegal because it rots teeth? What if extreme sports were made illegal because the risk of injury is great? What if food became monitored and restricted because people are becoming obese and getting diabetes?

[Chris Nagy]

I agree with you that healthy people live longer, I do not however agree that the healthy nessessarily die more quickly or in less pain statistically speaking. If you have evedence to the contrary please quote your sources. As we get better at curing and sustaining medically the only diseases left are the ones that are incurable and prolonged. Cell degradation, your cells cease to be able to subdivide without making mistakes in the DNA code (and they regenerate more slowly). A healthy life does not prevent this from happening it only delays the inevitable.Clym, heart disease is the leading cause of death, at least in the US. It is, essentially, our eventual off-switch. If nothing else kills you, heart disease claims you at old age; heart attack, stroke, what have you. These are quick, and lethal. Surviving one is possible, but your chances of surviving a heart attack at an advanced age are slim at best. As for wanting statistics that show old people dying of heart disease doing so faster than someone with, say, emphysema, please use common sense.

Generally, healthy people don't get the diseases associated with smoking. It can happen but, again, generally it doesn't. Remove those afflictions, which do degrade the patient's standard of living, and you are left with the causes of death which happen relatively suddenly, heart disease included. Again, this doesn't take a case study to prove, just look at the causes of death, who is at risk, and the time frames associated with the affliction.


Where does it end if the government starts making everything illegal instead of managing problems and providing alternatives such as treatment or support?

What if candy was made illegal because it rots teeth? What if extreme sports were made illegal because the risk of injury is great? What if food became monitored and restricted because people are becoming obese and getting diabetes?Slippery slope, much? You're comparing cigarettes to candy and snowboarding, Tom. Whether or not you agree with government intervention, cigarettes give us nothing but a fairly impressive kill-rate. Nicotine is a drug, and its addiction rate is up there with the worst of them. Just because we're socially used to cigarettes being allowed doesn't make that a good thing by any stretch, and I'd have to say that in an ideal world, the government would step in and ban it.

[ig.]

I will support this kneejerk activism towards eliminating smoking, but I'll appease the beancounter in me and state my official stance as ban smoking in areas that can be considered liable insurance-wise. You know - at ship ports, clean rooms, the Intel campus, fry kitchens, hooka parties, what have you.

[Chinomi]

Smoking was allowed at our High School. Not inside of course, but at the other side of the parking lot there was a smoking pit for breaks and lunches.

It actually helped. Having no smoking pit isn't going to stop the kids from smoking, all it'll do is invite smuggling the smokes.

Please note, I do not smoke nor support smoking in general.

[Matt Cruea]

Hooray! Matt doesn't understand sarcasm!

With you, Gabi, you can never be too sure something like that IS sarcasm.

Which I still don't think it necessarily was.


That might be dumber than the "smoking causes fires" comment.

It was a "utopia" comment and you are completely retarded.

And I don't even need to reply to Tom because Chris did it for me.

[ClymAngus]

Clym, heart disease is the leading cause of death, at least in the US.

That is statistically provable so I cannot disagree.



It is, essentially, our eventual off-switch. If nothing else kills you, heart disease claims you at old age; heart attack, stroke, what have you. These are quick, and lethal.

I disagree,
http://www.theuniversityhospital.com/stroke/stats.htm

As for heart attacks well the studies I've see appear to read about a 50% survival rate. Those that die "quickly" die within 28 days. Urgo a heart attack doesn't garrentee a quick and painless death, whatever the course. The heart is weakened by a heart attack, and this effects quality of life in the 50% of survivors. In fact if you are healthy your more likely to survive your first heart attack. But your heart and your quality of life is still damaged by it.



Surviving one is possible, but your chances of surviving a heart attack at an advanced age are slim at best.
At a steadily advancing age, lots of things become more difficult as your body naturally degrades and in so doing naturally effecting your quality of life. Good genetics will slow this decline, healthy living statisically to a certain extent too but this decline will occur. This leaves the body open to a much wider pallette of possible health issues some of them quick an lot of them (thanks to advaces in medical science) slow but equaly inevitable.



As for wanting statistics that show old people dying of heart disease doing so faster than someone with, say, emphysema, please use common sense.

That's not what I asked for, if you take the time to read my post you'll see that what I actually said was;

"I agree with you that healthy people live longer, I do not however agree that the healthy nessessarily die more quickly or in less pain statistically speaking. If you have evidence to the contrary please quote your sources"

I am using common sence (please don't degrade this otherwise good debate with pointless mudslinging), I'm researching the causes of death and presenting your with statisical studies that back up my argument. All I'm asking you to do is back up your argument in a similar way. If you are unwilling to do this then fine, just don't expect me to agree just because you said so. You wouldn't, if the tables were turned.



Generally, healthy people don't get the diseases associated with smoking. It can happen but, again, generally it doesn't.
Statistically you have a reduced risk, this is provable yes.



Remove those afflictions, which do degrade the patient's standard of living,
They can't be removed their likely hood is only reduced.



and you are left with the causes of death which happen relatively suddenly, heart disease included.
Not in the studies I've read, but I'm happy to read any evidence that backs up your argument. I'm not adverse to changing my mind if the the proof is compelling enough.



Again, this doesn't take a case study to prove, just look at the causes of death, who is at risk, and the time frames associated with the affliction.
Yes, I'm afraid it does. It always takes evidence to prove anything. Without proof the strongest argument becomes a matter of faith.

[Gabi Star]

Matt, honestly, the smart thing to do right now is to not get into a personal argument, especially because we'll be spending a week together in June.

So don't act like you know me. And more importantly, stop the condescension. Someone like you has little liberty to act the way you sometimes do.

So I'll let you decide how you want to play this. You want to make it uncomfortable in Aspen, by all means go ahead. Start the drama while you're ahead.

[Tom]

Slippery slope, much? You're comparing cigarettes to candy and snowboarding, Tom. Whether or not you agree with government intervention, cigarettes give us nothing but a fairly impressive kill-rate. Nicotine is a drug, and its addiction rate is up there with the worst of them. Just because we're socially used to cigarettes being allowed doesn't make that a good thing by any stretch, and I'd have to say that in an ideal world, the government would step in and ban it.

Yes, I am, Chris. That is exactly what I'm doing. In my ideal world, the government would not force its hand down our throats. Everyone knows the risks of smoking and the people that still do it choose to do it. There is a risk when you do ANYthing. My candy and sports argument were specifically for Matt's narrow "addictive and harmful" statement and whether or not you think the risk of possible outcomes for either of the two or smoking are more significant or more important or urgent than any other it does not stop the comparison from being accurate.

I intentionally picked such differing things to compare to making smoking illegal because that's just how stupid I think such a ban would be. It illustrates that you cannot just say "this is bad, make it illegal" for something and just ignore other risky realities. Rotting teeth is not lung cancer and obesity is not emphysema, but for all of these things, including smoking, people are aware of the risk.

In an ideal world, the government would not treat its citizens like they are incapable of thinking for themselves.

Banning cigarettes would not stop people from smoking. People would still find a way to buy cigarettes and then you'd get tobacco users being criminalized and thrown in jail for something ridiculous instead of some guy who committed a REAL human offense. Just making things illegal willy-nilly is such a reckless thing to do--it just creates criminals instead of addressing the problem by providing alternatives and government sponsored therapy or support. If the government really cared, they'd spend more money on socially constructive things like that instead of the sad amount they spend/want to spend on shit like a fucking fence on the mexican border.

[Matt Cruea]

Matt, honestly, the smart thing to do right now is to not get into a personal argument, especially because we'll be spending a week together in June.

So don't act like you know me. And more importantly, stop the condescension. Someone like you has little liberty to act the way you sometimes do.

So I'll let you decide how you want to play this. You want to make it uncomfortable in Aspen, by all means go ahead. Start the drama while you're ahead.

Stop being a bitch and take it like a man. And I have tons of liberty! I ooze liberty, baby! I'm a liberty machine!

I thought you were staying in your own house anyway? : O

Tom: Let me put it this way, in my ideal world, we wouldn't even HAVE such vices. But I'm more realistic than that.

[Klaymen1]

I want a forum nemesis >O a Matt Cruea to your Gabi, A Cnaggy to your ClymAngus, an anyone to your Moose.

._.

[Gabi Star]

I'm not being a bitch. I have a right to be offended. Just be a decent person, please, and stop with the personal attacks.

[Tom]

Tom: Let me put it this way, in my ideal world, we wouldn't even HAVE such vices. But I'm more realistic than that.

...but what about porn? ;_;

[Matt Cruea]

I want a forum nemesis >O a Matt Cruea to your Gabi, A Cnaggy to your ClymAngus, an anyone to your Moose.

._.

I am everyone's nemesis, Klay. That's the point of being Matt Cruea!


I'm not being a bitch. I have a right to be offended. Just be a decent person, please, and stop with the personal attacks.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to be offended, because you totally should be, barring some thicker skin, but by no means am I a decent person.


...but what about porn? ;_;

In an ideal world, Tom, we wouldn't NEED porn.

'cause the sex would be free.

[ClymAngus]

I want a forum nemesis >O a Matt Cruea to your Gabi, A Cnaggy to your ClymAngus, an anyone to your Moose.

._.
Nemesis;
1. A source of harm or ruin: Uncritical trust is my nemesis.
2. Retributive justice in its execution or outcome: To follow the proposed course of action is to invite nemesis.
3. An opponent that cannot be beaten or overcome.
4. One that inflicts retribution or vengeance.
5. Nemesis Greek Mythology. The goddess of retributive justice or vengeance.

That's a bit strong, Nemesis. Sparks visions of black cloaks, top hats and people being tied to railway lines. I don't think I'd really want to be anyone's true nemesis. Sounds like a lot of hard work to me.

[Chris Nagy]

I'm going to take a moment to explain statistics for the folks playing at home, because I'm relatively certain that Clym knows the score and is merely attempting to play the angles at this point.

When studies are done and results are produced, these results at then used to draw conclusions. These conclusions are then used to make statements: "More Americans die of A than B, every year." These results are then cross-referenced with more specific studies (for example, a study looking at causes of death for smokers,) to show some relation between the national average and this smaller section of the population, and where the differences lay due to a specific lifestyle choice (in this case, smoking, but alcohol abuse, obesity, or extreme sports could be used in the same way.) Looking at these various statistical studies, we can come up with conclusions that apply to most of the population. And now, on with the show.

Point 1: Heart disease is the leading cause of death. Amongst the various heart diseases, Sudden Cardiac Death is the most common. http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/18/2158

Point 2: Amongst Smoker deaths, Lung Cancer is the leading cause of death, followed by Chronic Lung Disease. http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/publications/aag/osh.htm

What does this tell us? It tells us that despite the fact that the single leading cause of death in the United States is Sudden Cardiac Death, the leading cause of death amongst Smokers is Lung Cancer (which, assuming it is not a rare acute cancer [meaning it runs its course in days instead of months,] is not a quick death by any means) and the runner up is Chronic Lung Disease (which, by it's very nature, takes a long period of time.) Coronary heart disease is still the third leading cause of death for Smokers, and a portion of those deaths will be Sudden Cardiac Deaths, but numerically you are much more likely to end up with an affliction that is slowly destroying your lungs.

Now, if that didn't make the point on its own, consider that we are talking about causes of death; thus, cancers that are successfully treated are not counted. Why is this important? This is important because, with our current medical technology, we can take care of almost any cancer that we catch before it has a chance to metasticise. A complete yearly checkup (even for the most unhealthy person) will catch almost all cancers early enough for them to be treated, with two exceptions: acute cancers that develop and metasticise in very short periods of time, and chronic diseases that are a result of lifestyle choices. If you have lung cancer and catch it early, they can take it out, but if you don't change your lifestyle, you'll end up back in the same situation. This is the same as a man who has a heart attack but returns to his old eating habits afterwards. Modern medicine can only protect you from yourself so much.

Now, in addition to that, understand that people who eat healthily, exercise, and avoid drug use have very reduced rates of cancer to begin with. Between a healthy lifestyle and preventative maintainance, you can (barring the few exceptions, and there are always a few exceptions) eliminate your risk of dying from cancer; you either will never develop it or you will catch it early enough that it is removed before it becomes serious. All of this information is available in almost any university health textbook.

Why does all of this cancer reduction talk matter? Well, cancer is the second leading cause of death in the United States. Early detection allows for early treatment, healthy living allows for a lower frequency of cancer to begin with, and between the two you have, for all intents and purposes, eliminated your risk to the second leading cause of death. Thus, in a world where you were either going to die of heart disease or cancer, now you are generally just going to die of heart disease (and a majority of those deaths, as we've covered above, are sudden.) The other causes of death on the list (aside from accidents perhaps, the 5th leading cause of death) are also affected by lifestyle, and living healthily reduces your risk to those as well.

Can I guarantee that you are going to die suddenly? No, of course not. Statistics represent an average, the hard numbers on any given day could fluctuate. But a safe bet is a safe bet for a reason; more often than not, what you expect to happen is what happens. The safe bet, as far as a human lifetime is concerned, is that the end result of a healthy life will be a sudden cardiac arrest at the end of a long life.

[Chris Nagy]

Yeah, I'm posting twice. Tacking this onto the last post would have been overkill.


Yes, I am, Chris. That is exactly what I'm doing. In my ideal world, the government would not force its hand down our throats. Everyone knows the risks of smoking and the people that still do it choose to do it. There is a risk when you do ANYthing. My candy and sports argument were specifically for Matt's narrow "addictive and harmful" statement and whether or not you think the risk of possible outcomes for either of the two or smoking are more significant or more important or urgent than any other it does not stop the comparison from being accurate.Actually, Tom, there is nothing accurate about the comparison; it is just illustrating how you feel about the topic. And how you feel about the topic doesn't seem to take into account any actual data. The reason I singled that out, specifically, is because you are a respected voice on the debate forums, and when you pull a logical fallacy to back an argument, you are drawing on your credit elsewhere to make an uncredible argument seem more sensible.


I intentionally picked such differing things to compare to making smoking illegal because that's just how stupid I think such a ban would be. It illustrates that you cannot just say "this is bad, make it illegal" for something and just ignore other risky realities. Rotting teeth is not lung cancer and obesity is not emphysema, but for all of these things, including smoking, people are aware of the risk. Tom, your argument was a strawman of the highest order. You chose to ignore the context, and warped Matt's argument in such a way as to make it seem ridiculous. The idea of banning everything that has a risk associated with it is absurd, by your acknowledgement of the argument we'd have to ban breathing, because oxidation causes cell damage. Again, there is a major difference between banning the most preventable cause of death in the United States, and banning Reeses Cups or Sky Diving. The first is entirely sensible, the second is absurd.


In an ideal world, the government would not treat its citizens like they are incapable of thinking for themselves. Addiction rates being what they are, I'm not so sure how much of the smoking community is really able to quit even if they wanted to. We aren't talking about making a decision to try and run every day, or a choice to sit around and watch TV-- we are talking about a chemical addiction. If your reasons for smoking have anything to do with the way it makes you feel, then you are feeding the addiction. If you smoke for social reasons; well, your body has very different reasons for it.


Banning cigarettes would not stop people from smoking. People would still find a way to buy cigarettes and then you'd get tobacco users being criminalized and thrown in jail for something ridiculous instead of some guy who committed a REAL human offense. Just making things illegal willy-nilly is such a reckless thing to do--it just creates criminals instead of addressing the problem by providing alternatives and government sponsored therapy or support. If the government really cared, they'd spend more money on socially constructive things like that instead of the sad amount they spend/want to spend on shit like a fucking fence on the mexican border.Another slippery slope, followed by a deflection. Banning cigarettes would make the supply less available, and the prices higher. A great majority would have to stop smoking, because we don't have a blackmarket trade established enough to supply the needs of today's smokers. Some people would still find a way to smoke and may get caught, but much like getting caught with small amounts of weed, the result would almost certainly be a fine rather than jailtime. Fences across the mexican border have nothing to do with this debate, which is why it's a deflection from the topic.

[ig.]

...Free sex?

[Ran]

Lets talk about the pro's to smoking! :D

1) It curbs my appitite. If I feel like chowing down when I'm not even hungry, a cigarette kicks my stomach back into its senses. I dont smoke in order to stop myself from getting nurishment. But for instance, right now, I am eating an entire bag of popcorn. Had I smoked a cigarette instead, the extra 156,189,913512.6 calories would still be in a little cardboard box in my pantry.

2) Helps my screaming. Yes, I scream. A lot. At venues with the band, that is. Smoking causes stress in the upper section of the vocal cords, which are used for screaming. The stress creates a "rockier" sound, so my screams sound better.

3) Nice little tobacco high. Makes you feel a little happier when you're pissed. :D

4) Oral fixation (shut up, guys. we're not 13 anymore). While I could just as easily eat a lolipop or chew some ice, smoking a cigarette keeps my mind at ease my giving my mouth something to do.

5) It makes me look cool.

Smoking Has Pros?? To You, Maybe, To Me, No. Its Stupid


Hooray! Matt doesn't understand sarcasm!

Thank Goodness you were Being Sarcastic in No.5 Because If you werent I could say stuff like it isnt cool etc

Well It Isnt.

And if you didnt tell Matt you were being Sarcastic I would have thought you wernt being sarcastic Because..Well Sarcasm isnt easily Spotted in writing All The Time. It more easy to tell when your being Sarcastic while talking and its harder in writing.

Anywayz Smoking Just Sucks

~Ran

[Jackson Knewone]

True, but..... ugh, what am I thinking. It is true.

[ClymAngus]

"I'm relatively certain that Clym knows the score and is merely attempting to play the angles at this point."

In the same way your molding the facts to custom fit your flagging argument Chris.

Sorry for the delay I had to talk to some doctors :)

Interesting Chris, seems your basing a lot of what your saying in this line of Table 1*At an age of greater than 85 years 61.2% of people who will suffer from SCD outside hospital. Which certainly would suggest that if they were outside hospital they were in no need to be in hospital.

Suggesting as you say; they died quickly and painlessly at the end of a long life of exceptionally high quality.

But if we look a little deeper say at Table 2. Distribution of Underlying Cause of Death Among SCD Decedents we see a slightly different pattern that would appear to back up my statement; with at (37.2%) highest cause in the table being Chronic ischemic heart disease. Cardiomyopathy and dysrhythmias are Chronic (8.8%), Hypertensive heart diseases are Chronic (4.6%), Carditis and valvular heart disease: Chronic (2.3%), Pulmonary heart disease: Chronic (0.8%). So over half that's instantly provable, the remainder with too little evidence in this report to place eather way.

Chronic disease effects the quality of life over a period of time. Of course SCD is quick and terminal (the clue is in the name). But the path to that point is littered with chronic illnesses.

I suggest you read this: http://agingstats.gov/update2006/Health_Status.pdf

[Nuko]

Here in Australia they have already started the ban from smoking 10 feet from eating areas such as restruants and also places near children unfortunatly my parents smoke but i bury their ciggerettes in the garden >3

*slaps self* BAD NEKO

[Chris Nagy]

Interesting Chris, seems your basing a lot of what your saying in this line of Table 1*At an age of greater than 85 years 61.2% of people who will suffer from SCD outside hospital. Which certainly would suggest that if they were outside hospital they were in no need to be in hospital.

Suggesting as you say; they died quickly and painlessly at the end of a long life of exceptionally high quality.Actually, Clym, that entire table is what I am basing it on. At every level, the percentage of SCD's outside of a hospital, and SCD's that are dead on arrival or dead in the emergency room, comprise a majority of deaths-- at every age group. You'll see, looking at the table, that ER/DOA is also listed under Sudden. I'm going to have to check my previous posts, but I don't believe I ever stated anything about this process being painless. In fact, I stated that I couldn't tell you that it was painless, only that it was quick.


But if we look a little deeper say at Table 2. Distribution of Underlying Cause of Death Among SCD Decedents we see a slightly different pattern that would appear to back up my statement; with at (37.2%) highest cause in the table being Chronic ischemic heart disease. Cardiomyopathy and dysrhythmias are Chronic (8.8%), Hypertensive heart diseases are Chronic (4.6%), Carditis and valvular heart disease: Chronic (2.3%), Pulmonary heart disease: Chronic (0.8%). So over half that's instantly provable, the remainder with too little evidence in this report to place eather way.

Chronic disease effects the quality of life over a period of time. Of course SCD is quick and terminal (the clue is in the name). But the path to that point is littered with chronic illnesses.

I suggest you read this: http://agingstats.gov/update2006/Health_Status.pdf
Chronic Ischemic Heart disease is a result of narrowed arteries in the heart. This causes chest pain called angina pectoris. Chronic means that the disease is long term and does not develop suddenly, but it isn't an indicator of severity: angina pectoris is pain or pressure in the chest, arms, back, or neck, but it can be treated easily with medication. Also, a number (estimated at 3 to 4 million in the US out of the estimated 14 million who have Chronic Ischemia) of people "suffer" from Silent Ischemia, which is Ischemia without pain.

Dysrhythmias are abnormal heart rhythms. They are chronic because they don't crop up over night. Bradycardia (which is an abnormally low heartbeat) is usually asymptomatic, but when symptoms such as fatigue or dizziness persist, it too can be treated easily with medication. On the whole, however, irregular heart beat has no symptoms and only leads into something else.

Hypertensive Heart disease is high blood pressure, which has no symptoms. Again, without symptoms all it does is lead into something else.

That's over half of your hit-list shown as either asymptomatic or easily treatable with medication, which puts a big hole in your "reduced quality of life" argument. This line in particular:
Chronic disease effects the quality of life over a period of time. is downright misleading, because Chronic disease does not necessarily affect the quality of life unless A) it has symptoms that go untreated or B) it has symptoms that cannot be completely treated.

High Blood Pressure, as mentioned above, is chronic but has no symptoms. It doesn't affect quality of life, though it may lead to a cardiovascular problem that does. Bradycardia, unless symptomatic, also does not affect the quality of life, but can again lead to a cardiovascular problem that does. Silent Ischemia is painless, but can once more lead into a cardiovascular problem that is not. When these last two are symptomatic, they can be treated. But of the cardiovascular problems that they lead to, a majority of them are sudden death.

[ClymAngus]

You know, when I started this, I thought I'd teach you a relatively quick and painless lesson about making rash statements without doing any proper research. You know, making assumptions about the world around you.

To a certain extent I have succeeded, you're now quoting other sources to back up you're argument, this is good. More than this I hoped (in my folly) to show you that maybe health in early life in all probability does not guarantee high quality of life right up until the end. That due to advances in medicine and the lack of advancement in the human, is and will in the future lead us inexorably to linger on this mortal coil.

I have noted that despite me taking you to task on your statistics you appear unwilling to take me to task on mine. Here's another one by the way;

http://www.mywhatever.com/cifwriter/library/sicktodeath/sick102.html

I'd suggest not reading it, as it's a real humdinger. To be totally truthful when I read your last post I felt a mixture of disappointment and most unlike me these days a tinge of anger. I considered answering your points by saying;

That your explanations of medical conditions were haphazard and slapdash.

That you use the term "treatable with medication" in the same way that other people would use the term "wave a magic wand". Pills and medical treatments can improve physical health, but not always with 100% effectiveness. And pills don't necessarily address the issues of emotional quality of life that go along with being reminded every time you take that pill that, one day, no matter what you do, your illness will kill you.

That the studies you've supplied give little or no information on the Q.O.L. status of the patients and therefore can't be used to disprove my argument.

And finally that according to at least one qualified doctor your understanding of high blood pressure is "a crock of shit." (not my words, my wife's, who is a trained scientist.......with a PhD and two postdocs under her belt).


Then I thought. Hang on! What am I actually saying here? The future I'm offering people is (lets be honest here) a pretty bleak one. Where as yours offers reward for action and effort done (reassuringly biblical). At this point I realized this isn't an argument about truth, it's an argument about hope.

Maybe the act of believing in a speedy end to your life will in some way increase the chances of making it happen (mind over matter and all that). Last thing I'd want to do is keep anyone from their maker after a long fruitful and productive life. Also like any normal person I hate the idea of undue and unjust suffering.

Replying to this thread has taken me on a very deep personal journey, to shocking realizations about most of our futures. That to be honest, I rather would have preferred to live in ignorant bliss of. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

So in the interests of hope and not really wanting to spread this stuff around (after all no one really needs to know the truth, it'll only depress them), I will, admittedly, not without some feelings of irony, concede.

It's going to be OK, It's all going to end well, you are right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment
read "recognition" :)

Should anyone want the facts I've unearthed (can't see why) then PM me.

[Chris Nagy]

The crock of shit, then, would be every source that I've found thus far; as they all state that high blood pressure is a "silent killer" because there are no symptoms and it increases the risk of other heart diseases.

I've read your source, and it makes some interesting points. There is alot of doom and gloom there, but some of the statements it makes seem to contradict other sources on the state of health of the elderly. For example:

After age eighty-five, only one person in twenty is still fully mobile (Sharma et al. 2001). seems to contradict this: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/older_americans.htm
The linked report from Health and Human Services shows that in the 75 and older age group, only 44.7% (in 2001 specifically) have any activity limitation, and that this percentage is part of a general downward trend in the percentage of elderly persons with any activity limitation.

How well does this work mathematically with the fact that 95% of people over the age of 85 have some sort of activity limitation (only 1 in 20 still being fully mobile, and while mobility does not account for dementia or other limitations, excluding them makes this a conservative figure, whereas the source would imply the percentage of over 85 with any sort of activity limitation is, in fact, larger than that) according to your source?

Well, in 2001 (which is the year quoted in her notation,) of the roughly 17 million persons 75 and over, 12.6 million were in the 75-84 range and 4.4 million were in the 85+ range. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus05.pdf#001

For 44.7% of those aged 75 and over (roughly 7.6 million people) to have some sort of activity limitation, considering the proposed 95% limitation rate amongst the 85+ range (which would 4.18 million limited,) the 75-84 year old range would need an activity limitation rate of about 27%. That would make this age group the only level in the entire chart that does not see an sizeable increase from the previous level; the limitation rate for the 65-74 range being 26%. That doesn't add up, does it? At every level from 25 and upward, the increases are in the realm of 6-7%, only to drop down to a 1% increase at 75-84, before skyrocketing up to 95%?

The fact that I can't track down her references (do you know how many Sharmas there are doing various studies?) means that I can't make a point on whether or not her choice of study was a good one (regarding sampling size, location, what have you,) but I can say that the sampling size of the links I've posted is the entire United States, which is probably more likely to give an accurate average.

Here's me attacking the source: I've taken just one of her statements, and shown it to be suspect when compared with data from the Department of Health and Human Services. What might that say about the rest of her choices? Or about her statements in general? I can't say, as I am not about to track down similar studies to compare the results.

As for recognition... Jeanne Louise Calment is a prime case of the exception that proves the rule. I wonder how long she would have lived without smoking? One Study suggests at least 10 years (though I've seen others say about 6.5,) though maybe more given her advanced age. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61981-2004Jun22.html

Now, to everyone still playing along at home: live healthy, make use of preventative care, and your quality of life will be generally high. Smoke consistently (or generally make any unhealthy lifestyle choices,) and your quality of life will have a marked decline. If you are an exception to either of the above statements, condolences or congratulations, whichever is appropriate.

[Mindychan]

To each his own. I hate cigarette smoke (allergic), but I'm not for banning smoking in public places. There can be designated smoking areas and it doesn't really bother me. I can list a hundred reasons why I hate the stuff but I can also list several more on why it should not be completely banned.

For example, a smoking ban in public places just passed in our city. I think about four businesses have already closed their doors and this is affecting a number of people and their jobs, including those who are close to me.

Clym and Cnagy: getting longer and longer XD

[ClymAngus]

Hmmm....doctors and scientists in different places, performing slightly differing studies on various samples and age groups of people...do you honestly expect these studies to agree? I'm sure most doctors wouldn't...

So in the interests of hope and not really wanting to spread this stuff around (after all no one really needs to know the truth, it'll only depress them), I will, admittedly, not without some feelings of irony, concede.

It's going to be OK, It's all going to end well, you are right.

[mystique]

*dances and celebrates for July 1st 2007*
website (http://www.nosmokinglaw.co.uk/smoking_ban_english_law.htm)
England, public places no smoking law coming into effect, thank God i can now breathe clean air inside buildings!
(london still is dirtier than most places pollution and all)

smoking, i hate it, despise it. :soapbox
and my friends around me that do smoke know about it, lol so they go smoke well away from me.
(have had a flatmate of mine run to the window anytime they saw me coming into the common room, but he shouldn't be smoking there anyways)

i've said multiple times, if there was one law, one rule i could make i'd ban ciggerettes totally.. or just tobacco, cigars stink to hell *yuck*
though upon saying that i have had my life threatened by a smoker (whether in jest, not too sure)
but i hate it, more over i don't understand the reason for it (save you all being druggies i guess, it's just the addiction)
your body is the body you gotta live with whilst on this planet and you poision yourself hoping that your lungs or heart won't fail you and when they do then you wanna get a transplant whilst someone born with a heart/lung disease has to wait!? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/mystiques_wish/Smileys/ranting.gif
(sensitive issue yes, but i can't help but feel to prioritise it to the person with the born disease, something that was placed on them, not induced out of their own free will):evil:

at the end of the day its a drug as addictive as any of the class A ones.
I can't help but think if nicotine was taken out of it, would it still be so appealing?
there's no meaning to it, its pointless, it harms not just yourself but others
it harms me. :mad:
anytime im at a bustop waiting and have to breathe that sh*t, r anytime im walking down the street, unfrotunately behind a smoker and have to then overtake just cause the smoke filters back to me, or simply if i wanna go dance at a club i've not much choice but to passive smoke my night away and come home smelling absolutely foul and feeling disgusting with my lungs dry.

you're not giving us non smokers much choice, hence it pisses me off to no end and i've pissed off enough smokers on my view in return.
"the stuff you're throwing in your lungs is almost no different from the smoke in a burning home or the tar used to coat the roads. do us a favour, go breathe the smoke in a burning home and dissappear faster so i can breathe already"
- that, i just say to those seriously arrogant to me about it when i tell them, please go elsewhere and if any smokers are finding this offensive, then you're beginning to get a snippet of how i feel to grow up in a society like this.

but times are changing, more money is being spent in the NHS on helping pple to quit and of course (whoopie!) Blair's gonna place that new law in.
now brits being brits, i know tons of pple are gonna be pissed and hell even break the law, i just hope they get their asses fined.
you've got enough money to spend on constantly poisioning yourself, you can afford to pay some kinda penalty for passively poisioning us too.

now i think i'd better stop here *laughs* don't even get me started on pregnant mothers or those that smoke with their children in pushchairs breathing it all in, one of the lowest of the low in my eyes but sadly seen too often over here....

[Kevin Gillis]

People are still posting here O.o

So what you are saying is that because you don't like smoking you are going to hope others suffer? Seriously, you need to open your mind up a little more. Just because you don't like it means nothing to most people. If I were outside on the street and you saw me smoking what would you do? Better yet, what would I do?

You can try to do something, but it'll just wash over me. I'll keep smoking whereever I want, if you don't like it, Hold your breath as I walk by, or even cross the street if you don't like it that much. Of course that doesn't I'm always an asshole like that, but I don't like it when people tell me what to do.

As I've said before, when walking with friends who don't smoke I'll make sure I'll stand downwind from them or make sure that the smoke doesn't go near them. At my house, I'll smoke anywhere since it's my house. At other peoples houses, if I am unsure, I'll ask.

It's because of people like you that make smokers seem badder than they actually are. Grow up. Since smoking isn't illegal get used to it, or better yet, lock yourself in a room with no windows and hide from all the smoke, Sicne you can't seem understand the smokers side of this debate.

[Amped2Flash]

Smoking can kill you.

So can a car crash.

I still drive a car. I still smoke.

Tobacco is one of America's largest industries. No smoking = no cigarettes = drop in economy.

I appreciate the whole drop in economy thing, and I'm not endorsing the whole ban smoking thing, because that isn't discipline at all.

What I'm peeved about is that some people don't consider others when they smoke. It isn't fair on others. Car crashes and smoking are two completely different things and I think that comparison you made failed slightly.

When you drive a car, you try to drive safely, and most car crashes are prevented. Unfortunately, not everyoe drives safely, and so car crashes happen. Accidents happen too, but they're uncontrollable. We can't stop car crashes altogether, just like we can't stop poverty altogether, but we can help reduce the amount we have control over.

The same goes for smoking. I don't think people should ban smoking, because if everyone completely rid the world of everything bad, where would the discipline be? How would anyone understand how to control themselves if they have never experienced certain forms of temptation and have learned through experience how to resist them?


So is the gas released from cars, but I don't see any bans on cars.



When you say "public places" do you mean everywhere open to public, or just indoor places? Because, in my opinion, smoking bans on outdoor public facilities are complete bullshit, and I don't want to go debating and making an ass out of myself if your talking about only indoor bans.`

No one should ban cars. That's illogical. Cars actually are very practical, but they let off an impractical amount of waste. If we can work towards elimating or reducing the waste, then we wouldn't need to ban cars. Just like if we stopped smokers from smoking around others who don't want to breathe it in, or if we stopped smoker from smoking in indoor public places, then we wouldn't need to ban smoking.

[Providence]

The fact that tobacco is a large part of the economy is an irrelevant argument for it to be sustained.

The fact is, tobacco products have absolutely no actual benefits. You could replace those cigarette factories with shoe factories and no one would be hurt.

Smoking has a direct effect on other people who don't smoke. As Amped2Flash said, comparing cigarettes to cars is completely irrelevant, as cars have a practical use in society. Besides, there are already regulations on car emissions, and they're poised to grow tougher.

[Moose]

Just like if we stopped smokers from smoking around others who don't want to breathe it in, or if we stopped smoker from smoking in indoor public places, then we wouldn't need to ban smoking.

Hey, I'm definitely all for indoor public bans, since smoke can build up in a stuffy room, and second hand smoke can actually be dangerous, but in the outdoors, it's not dangerous, just annoying. Just saying that you feel threatened by second hand smoke outside is really stupid, seeing as you can barely smell it outside, let alone breathe it in. I've been around smokers, and if you are anywheres outside of 10 feet from them, unless they are deliberately trying their hardest to blow smoke in your direction, you won't even smell it. If the guy blows smoke in your face, just tell him/her to please stop, and if he/she persists, kick the crap out of him/her.

I mean, the smoke may be a bit annoying, but not dangerous at all in an open outdoor setting. And smoking just because it's annoying is like banning people from having ringtones or something like that. It's just pointless and really quite stupid in my opinion.

So here's the solution: If someones smoking, unstead of shutting down an entire industry, just walk a few steps away. Honestely, it's not that difficult. I don't see why we have to shut down an entire industry if you can just walk out of the way.


The fact that tobacco is a large part of the economy is an irrelevant argument for it to be sustained.

The fact is, tobacco products have absolutely no actual benefits. You could replace those cigarette factories with shoe factories and no one would be hurt.

I kind of find this hard to believe. I'm pretty sure the people working at the cigarette factories would be hurt. What, do you think it's just one rich evil guy making all those cigarettes? No, there are plenty of people involved. Chemists, advertisers, and regular factory workers. Many jobs would be lost, even if replaced by a shoe factory.


Smoking has a direct effect on other people who don't smoke. As Amped2Flash said, comparing cigarettes to cars is completely irrelevant, as cars have a practical use in society. Besides, there are already regulations on car emissions, and they're poised to grow tougher.

I actually think it was a fairly good comparison. Lots of people buy cars, lots of people buy cigarettes. Cars are a fairly good part of the economy, cigarettes are a fairly good part of the economy (where do you think all the cigarette tax goes?). Cars release toxic gas, cigarettes release toxic gas. That is why I am for the ban of cars and cigarettes in public places.

Cigarettes have as much use as a TV, or a video game, or an iPod. They are used because people enjoy using them. Smokers enjoy smoking, that's why they do it. Addiction is a factor, but they also enjoy smoking, either the act or the high after wards. Saying smoking has no practical use is like saying TV's have no practical use.

In fact, just to start up another discussion, which bans do you find fit for smokers? Here are mine:

Indoors.
Within 10-15 feet of schools and other childrens places.
In lines.

[Providence]

I'm a very strong social conservative and health nut.
So really, that's a rather bad question to ask me.

If I had my way, more than cigarettes would be banned =P


I kind of find this hard to believe. I'm pretty sure the people working at the cigarette factories would be hurt. What, do you think it's just one rich evil guy making all those cigarettes? No, there are plenty of people involved. Chemists, advertisers, and regular factory workers. Many jobs would be lost, even if replaced by a shoe factory.
Many jobs would be lost... if you shut them all down at once. There's a lot of alternatives to that. Gradual downsizing, forcing the parent companies into other ventures, reassignments, etc.


I actually think it was a fairly good comparison. Lots of people buy cars, lots of people buy cigarettes. Cars are a fairly good part of the economy, cigarettes are a fairly good part of the economy (where do you think all the cigarette tax goes?). Cars release toxic gas, cigarettes release toxic gas. That is why I am for the ban of cars and cigarettes in public places.

Cigarettes have as much use as a TV, or a video game, or an iPod. They are used because people enjoy using them. Smokers enjoy smoking, that's why they do it. Addiction is a factor, but they also enjoy smoking, either the act or the high after wards. Saying smoking has no practical use is like saying TV's have no practical use.
I simply cannot agree here. Cigarette tax is nice, but that's another irrelevant point. Why? Because the amount of people the government has to spend treating people from lung cancer and other ailments stemming from cigarettes FAR outweighs the amount of money we earn from cigarettes. I could dig you up a figure and source if you want me to (I'll have to ask my sociology professor to find it) but the net loss to America amounts to over a billion dollars per year in lost productivity and health care costs, not to mention that children lose parents, etc.

Again, TV's, video games, and I-Pods may be for entertainment, but they've never given anyone cancer or indirectly hurt anyone. World of Warcraft doesn't count.

[Irulanne]

I have only one thing to say.

Smoking kill.

My mother died at the age of 41 from lung cancer caused by smoking. From the day she recieved the diagnosis and the day she died, 4 weeks.

My grand mother died at the age of 51 from lung cancer caused by smoking. She had one lung removed and suffered a great deal of pain for 6 months until she finally gave up.

Dying from cancer is not a painless and peacefull death. You should have hear my mother screamed when she had her lung biopsies... or her motionless face when she was drugged with morphine because of the pain.

Yeah right. Even if I dont smoke, I can have lung cancer as well but am I willing to increase my chances by 85% ? No.

I feel very sad when people around me smoke because of the damage they do to their body.

And personaly, I cant stand cigarette. I really dont.

Iru

[mystique]

People are still posting here O.o

So what you are saying is that because you don't like smoking you are going to hope others suffer?
other's being who, cause its people dying of passive smoking or being affected by passive smoking that i see suffering. Now like you said, we could hide ourselves in a room away from the smoke...but then we don't really get to socialise or enjoy life as we would want to.
two people, both love to dance. one smokes, the other doesn't.
me personally being the non smoker, i love dance but to go clubbing is to end up smelling awful on my clothes and body, my lungs dry and feeling a little ill -
whilst the smoker will go, smoke have a good time and go home.
tell me who is suffering here.
does that sound right or fair to you, answer me on that.
- and if you mean in terms of lung cancer, personally i'd love for you to stop and give your lungs an easier time, but as smokers say
'its my choice, i can do what i like'
fine, we all do things we know the consequences.

Seriously, you need to open your mind up a little more. Just because you don't like it means nothing to most people.
It's meaning something to you, you've told me personally to grow up, lock myself in a room, happily accept to poisioning myself, to not be so narrow minded (which i just laugh at in real life, the irony)
This is a forum, pple wanna express their own opinions, I stated mine down. you have your thoughts, i have my thoughts, we're here to express them openly, kinda get the drift here?

If I were outside on the street and you saw me smoking what would you do? Better yet, what would I do?
Doesn't really matter cause i'm never gonna meet you, or rather when you do smoke in the street, tell me if anyone steps up. More over my efforts go to my friends not strangers.
I live in London, (so i have the city attitude with strangers) different areas have slightly different social smoking issues, since we're a crowded 9 million in a very small area that is heavily dependant on public transport, issues on smoking become more noticible then an area with where there's space.


You can try to do something, but it'll just wash over me. I'll keep smoking whereever I want, if you don't like it, Hold your breath as I walk by, or even cross the street if you don't like it that much. Of course that doesn't I'm always an asshole like that, but I don't like it when people tell me what to do.
so understand the actual sad fact that non smokers either have to hold their breath or poison themselves a little. Breathing is as essential as keeping my heart healthy, I don't have a choice in the matter, you do
Human bodies have no choice to supply oxygen to their brains.
Human beings have a choice to smoke - so if your own personal choice is at risk of harming others, then its 'your responsibility' to be considerate.
And as you gave me an example with your mates or going to people's homes that you are considerate, then why are you taking this personally and attacking me, when im giving my opinion on smokers in general not anyone specifically here cause hey guess what?
I've never met, nor do i know you personally, du duh!
Or more over, the fact that you're aware of us then should make you understand it better for those in the public who may ask you 'do you mind smoking elsewhere' or to understand my frustration.
It's a little ironic.

And that kind of arrogance i've bolded doesn't really help me 'like' smokers any better. And you've also seemed to have conviently skipped over the fact that i said i have friends who are smokers, (very few tho) hence as being friends, we do swap opinions with each other and i do ask the smoker lot.
'What's the point? Sell this to me, what possble benefit can u give me cause i can give u a sh%tload of negatives and it far outweights any good in this.'

So, you smokers are tired of hearing complaints from us.
And we non smokers are tired of having to regulate our lives or actions around you based on a choice you've made and the fact it harms us.
Everyone's fed up and tired.

So, the law is passing for banning smoking in public places, within concealed spaces. It's not saying 'oh my gosh, we're going to like totally ban ciggerettes forever'
That's impossible.
It's saying we're gonna give desinated areas for smokers that can breathe on each others smoke in peace (away from 'pple like me' as you put it)
and it's going to hopefully allow me to not have to add to my worry of walking away, or holding my breath whilst waiting for a bus or walking in the shopping centre for example.
And i already do walk away/hold my breath at times, i said so already and it sucks, so if you're talking about understanding, understand my frustration here.
I've met some nice londoners that have seen me cough on their smoke when they light up and they apologise and step a few feet away and i smile and say 'thank you.'
So if that to you is me 'needing to grow up' - the fact that i do have genuine concern over my lungs and my general health, then i'd hate to ever find out what your definition of maturity is :?

The only reasons i've heard my smoker friends give me is that it calms them down when they're stressed. It gives a 'relaxing' effect. it helps them to slim (for the girls here and oh man have i told them in so many words that's the stupidest thing ever right next to extreme dieting) - or most answers i get
'i dunno, i just started, can't stop'.
If i could conjure up a bottle of straight up nicotine added with whatever weird ass chemicals needed to give a similar calming effect or to deal with the jitters if it helps you to quit, trust me i would.
Or cause i know it turns into a unsubconcious habit, i'd stick it all in a small stick alike the real thing. (i know something similar is in chemists already..)
"I need to do something with my hands. Hold stick, light up, raise to lips, drag, a few moments later exhale then repeat as necessary"

But...
I will never from my 6 year old mind when i risked getting beatings from my father cause i would constantly rip his ciggerettes in half and throw them in the bin until the day i die accept or condone smoking.
It's a vice that for every stick your smoke you're instaneously harming yourself. It's a item that causes all kinds of respiratory illnesses and diseases not just to yourself, but to other people. (ie, parents to young children)
Or even on a simple level, just a club night. After few hours when i leave, i don't feel good.
I have work colleagues that go for fag breaks, come back to speak to me and i just turn my head away, most times its a reflex. That or i take two steps back, and i've again hurt some pple that way but the smell alone is disgusting, in that sense it becomes anti social.

There is nothing, nada, ziltch, zip and any other langugaes you want to include in there positive or beneficial about smoking in anyway for anybody.
And because that is an undeniable fact, is the reason I feel this way.

That's just mystique's stance on smoking for the board.
You can agree, disagree, take it personal or don't take it personal, think its rubbish or maybe just maybe have a second think and go 'hmm, i don't agree with everything she said but she makes a point, i understand her side of the coin better.'

To Gillis specifically, don't you dare tell me to 'grow up' or i 'need to open my mind up a little more' or attack me in anyway that goes beyond this website, based on an opinion (or rant) I'm entitled to and two, the thread maker asked for.
You have no knowledge on me anymore than i have on you as a person beyond the monitor, save that you smoke and i don't.
I gave my opinion along with reasons and senarios, you gave your opinion, but you don't see me specifically going after the smokers here and personally attacking them one by one, cause that's when pple begin to argue and threads get locked, so keep the civility here.

That aside...
*continues to dance for joy for july 07* ^^
(not to mention 5th HP movie's coming out then as well)

[ClymAngus]

The fact that tobacco is a large part of the economy is an irrelevant argument for it to be sustained.

The fact is, tobacco products have absolutely no actual benefits. You could replace those cigarette factories with shoe factories and no one would be hurt.

Smoking has a direct effect on other people who don't smoke. As Amped2Flash said, comparing cigarettes to cars is completely irrelevant, as cars have a practical use in society. Besides, there are already regulations on car emissions, and they're poised to grow tougher.

OK we'll use a subject matter that is equally pointless. What are your thoughts on base jumping? :) (and before you say "this doesn't have any effect on other people" what if your shoot fails?) WAM! SPLAT!

How far are you prepared to go to protect people from themselves? I'd love to hear your thoughts on how your going to do it and what your going to make illegal. I get the feeling it's going to be a long list.

[Providence]

OK we'll use a subject matter that is equally pointless. What are your thoughts on base jumping? :) (and before you say "this doesn't have any effect on other people" what if your shoot fails?) WAM! SPLAT!

How far are you prepared to go to protect people from themselves? I'd love to hear your thoughts on how your going to do it and what your going to make illegal. I get the feeling it's going to be a long list.

My feelings on that subject are wholly irrelevant to the subject, and you're asking me that in jest and in ridicule, so I'm going to do us both a favor and not answer.


People are still posting here O.o

So what you are saying is that because you don't like smoking you are going to hope others suffer? Seriously, you need to open your mind up a little more. Just because you don't like it means nothing to most people. If I were outside on the street and you saw me smoking what would you do? Better yet, what would I do?

You can try to do something, but it'll just wash over me. I'll keep smoking whereever I want, if you don't like it, Hold your breath as I walk by, or even cross the street if you don't like it that much. Of course that doesn't I'm always an asshole like that, but I don't like it when people tell me what to do.

As I've said before, when walking with friends who don't smoke I'll make sure I'll stand downwind from them or make sure that the smoke doesn't go near them. At my house, I'll smoke anywhere since it's my house. At other peoples houses, if I am unsure, I'll ask.

It's because of people like you that make smokers seem badder than they actually are. Grow up. Since smoking isn't illegal get used to it, or better yet, lock yourself in a room with no windows and hide from all the smoke, Sicne you can't seem understand the smokers side of this debate.

But I suppose militant smokers will never get over the fact that are engaging in a socially destructive activity and potentially bringing down others with them. You know, if you want to go to the grave, go by yourself. Those around you may not be so keen on it.

[Mallie]

I dont know. I hate smoking and I grew up around it. My mom smoked for 13 years, about the whole first half of my life and my grandparents smoked a lot as well. I was always around it. But my grandmother and mom quit with each other and they haven't smoked in like 6 or 7 years.

My mom is starting to work out and eat healthy and taking care of her body and she feels great. My grandmother however is diagnosed with severe emphyzema and she has to do breathing exercises everyday when she wakes up and before she goes to bed. The doctors said that she will eventually be put on an oxygen tank if she doesnt get any better.

I dont smoke and have no care in the world to but I have lots of friends who do and I love them all dearly. Some of them are considerate and wont smoke around others who dont like it and there are other people who dont give a care in the world. Either way, I don't think that it's a crime but if it was taken out of the industry it wouldn't bother me a bit.

[ClymAngus]

My feelings on that subject are wholly irrelevant to the subject, and you're asking me that in jest and in ridicule, so I'm going to do us both a favor and not answer.

Assumption does not become you.

[Providence]

Sorry, sideskirting issues and attempting to derail the topic by moving into fringe arguments isn't my thing, so I'll just stop it here.

[ig.]

You see that, Clym? First you thought he would zig, then you thought he would zag, then BAM - he says 'forget your irrelevance'. THAT'S how things are done in Dogtown.

Oh and you can smoke if you want I mean it's your choice until you're psychologically addicted dur

[ClymAngus]

A minor set back, nothing more. Oh, he twists and turns this one. Let me review for a second, I'm sure there's enough line to reel this one in.

[ClymAngus]

But of course Nik, you just snuck in with a reply before I could amend it. :)


My feelings on that subject are wholly irrelevant to the subject, and you're asking me that in jest and in ridicule, so I'm going to do us both a favor and not answer.

OK to clarify, assumption.Your assuming that; my retort was in some way frivolous, also I'm "sideskirting issues and attempting to derail the topic by moving into fringe arguments" which "isn't my thing".

Incorrect.

There are many things that humanity does, that when carrying on the time line long enough could be seen or argued to be, without point or purpose. There are many things that are taken for granted by groups that can be argued to be damaging to other people. The entire western throw away culture for instance. Eventually it would be nice to eradicate all things that harm other people yes. In the meantime people will continue to (and feel it is their right to) harm themselves and others, in many new and interesting ways. For money, for fun or a myriad of other short term gains.

It was not my wish to offend, just underline the point that smoking maybe the ugly head of a wider sense of cultural selfishness.

[Amped2Flash]

Hey, I'm definitely all for indoor public bans, since smoke can build up in a stuffy room, and second hand smoke can actually be dangerous, but in the outdoors, it's not dangerous, just annoying. Just saying that you feel threatened by second hand smoke outside is really stupid, seeing as you can barely smell it outside, let alone breathe it in. I've been around smokers, and if you are anywheres outside of 10 feet from them, unless they are deliberately trying their hardest to blow smoke in your direction, you won't even smell it. If the guy blows smoke in your face, just tell him/her to please stop, and if he/she persists, kick the crap out of him/her.

I mean, the smoke may be a bit annoying, but not dangerous at all in an open outdoor setting. And smoking just because it's annoying is like banning people from having ringtones or something like that. It's just pointless and really quite stupid in my opinion.

So here's the solution: If someones smoking, unstead of shutting down an entire industry, just walk a few steps away. Honestely, it's not that difficult. I don't see why we have to shut down an entire industry if you can just walk out of the way.



I kind of find this hard to believe. I'm pretty sure the people working at the cigarette factories would be hurt. What, do you think it's just one rich evil guy making all those cigarettes? No, there are plenty of people involved. Chemists, advertisers, and regular factory workers. Many jobs would be lost, even if replaced by a shoe factory.



I actually think it was a fairly good comparison. Lots of people buy cars, lots of people buy cigarettes. Cars are a fairly good part of the economy, cigarettes are a fairly good part of the economy (where do you think all the cigarette tax goes?). Cars release toxic gas, cigarettes release toxic gas. That is why I am for the ban of cars and cigarettes in public places.

Cigarettes have as much use as a TV, or a video game, or an iPod. They are used because people enjoy using them. Smokers enjoy smoking, that's why they do it. Addiction is a factor, but they also enjoy smoking, either the act or the high after wards. Saying smoking has no practical use is like saying TV's have no practical use.

In fact, just to start up another discussion, which bans do you find fit for smokers? Here are mine:

Indoors.
Within 10-15 feet of schools and other childrens places.
In lines.

Cars are essential in travel, and are being worked on, to be less harmful to the environment. All smoking does is calm someone down. And there are more efficient and less harmful ways of calming someone down, believe me.


But of course Nik, you just snuck in with a reply before I could amend it. :)



OK to clarify, assumption.Your assuming that; my retort was in some way frivolous, also I'm "sideskirting issues and attempting to derail the topic by moving into fringe arguments" which "isn't my thing".

Incorrect.

There are many things that humanity does, that when carrying on the time line long enough could be seen or argued to be, without point or purpose. There are many things that are taken for granted by groups that can be argued to be damaging to other people. The entire western throw away culture for instance. Eventually it would be nice to eradicate all things that harm other people yes. In the meantime people will continue to (and feel it is their right to) harm themselves and others, in many new and interesting ways. For money, for fun or a myriad of other short term gains.

It was not my wish to offend, just underline the point that smoking maybe the ugly head of a wider sense of cultural selfishness.

Clym... I don't get where you're coming from.... are you saying that all of a sudden because I and quite a few people here want indoor smoking to be banned, all of a sudden we're requesting that all harmful things in the world should be banned.

No. We're probably all intelligent enough to understand that that's impossible and silly even to think of.

[Providence]

OK we'll use a subject matter that is equally pointless. What are your thoughts on base jumping? (and before you say "this doesn't have any effect on other people" what if your shoot fails?) WAM! SPLAT!

How far are you prepared to go to protect people from themselves? I'd love to hear your thoughts on how your going to do it and what your going to make illegal. I get the feeling it's going to be a long list.


But of course Nik, you just snuck in with a reply before I could amend it.



OK to clarify, assumption.Your assuming that; my retort was in some way frivolous, also I'm "sideskirting issues and attempting to derail the topic by moving into fringe arguments" which "isn't my thing".

Incorrect.

There are many things that humanity does, that when carrying on the time line long enough could be seen or argued to be, without point or purpose. There are many things that are taken for granted by groups that can be argued to be damaging to other people. The entire western throw away culture for instance. Eventually it would be nice to eradicate all things that harm other people yes. In the meantime people will continue to (and feel it is their right to) harm themselves and others, in many new and interesting ways. For money, for fun or a myriad of other short term gains.

It was not my wish to offend, just underline the point that smoking maybe the ugly head of a wider sense of cultural selfishness.

Sorry to have misinterpreted you, but perhaps you should inject more of that actual viewpoint in your phrasing =P

While what you say does have a lot of truth, and I can't say I wholly disagree, you must not wander into cultural relativism. The fact is, one could dilly-dally in semantics all he wants and come out thinking "all's well if you think well" yet still be blindsided by the big picture.

In this case, the big picture is that smoking is a personally and socially destructive habit that simply has no equal in its harm. While I am a tremendous advocate of a man's right to his own body, I cannot say the same for those who would endanger another person's well-being for his own habits.

Of course, while smoking may just be another trend in a cycle of self-destruction, it's nary an excuse to turn your head and whistle to. Rather, I see it as dire, a most direct reason for a necessary social reform. This in itself may lead to the question, is it worth it to extinguish smoking if something just as harmful may pop up in its place?

To me, the answer will always be yes, as there will always be a chance that something as bad won't manifest to us again. After all, that is the idea of social progressivism.


All smoking does is calm someone down. And there are more efficient and less harmful ways of calming someone down, believe me.

To clarify this point, smoking will only calm down those who are addicted to nicotine. It's like any other addiction.
However, unlike other drugs, smoking does not have any additive effects.
Marijuana may calm you down and make you rather mellow, but smoking does not do anything for you.
Rather, smoking's only effects manifest themselves when you're NOT smoking--and it just so happens that all of those effects are negative.

In effect, you're paying for a habit that makes you feel normal, when in fact, if you never started it, you'd feel normal all the time anyways.

[Kevin Gillis]

But I suppose militant smokers will never get over the fact that are engaging in a socially destructive activity and potentially bringing down others with them. You know, if you want to go to the grave, go by yourself. Those around you may not be so keen on it.

I think you should reread the posts I've made in this thread. That last post wasn't supposed to make me sound like an asshole, but I guess that failed. However, I DO go out of my way to smoke around non-smokers that I do know. Hell my roommate has been quitting for some time now. I don't go to his room with a smoke in my hand I'll even not smoke for several hours if we are playing video games and such.

Ignorant people need to realize that smoking is an addcition that can't be easily beaten. What pisses me off the most is the people who don't like smokers even if they don't know them. What you are doing is judging a book by its cover.



other's being who, cause its people dying of passive smoking or being affected by passive smoking that i see suffering. Now like you said, we could hide ourselves in a room away from the smoke...but then we don't really get to socialise or enjoy life as we would want to.

Others being non-smokers. That's true, but what you also need to know that with smoking bans in place everywhere then it'll be the smokers who don't socialise or enjoy life.


two people, both love to dance. one smokes, the other doesn't.
me personally being the non smoker, i love dance but to go clubbing is to end up smelling awful on my clothes and body, my lungs dry and feeling a little ill -
whilst the smoker will go, smoke have a good time and go home.
tell me who is suffering here.
does that sound right or fair to you, answer me on that.

You see, that's personal preference, so really I don't care. Unlike the stereotypes that you label smokers as 'all they need is a smoke to be happy' is complete bullshit. They are people as well, and they also have feelings.


and if you mean in terms of lung cancer, personally i'd love for you to stop and give your lungs an easier time, but as smokers say
'its my choice, i can do what i like'
fine, we all do things we know the consequences.

Here's where I have to go a little more personal. Did you know that my father had to go for heart surgery because of smoking? And that because it was a heart diease that there is a good chance that I might get it as well? Didn't think so. I have made plans to quit, but it's that hard. I have the power to quit at anytime yes, but quitting now would make me more of an asshole I already am as I will be craving for a smoke.


Doesn't really matter cause i'm never gonna meet you, or rather when you do smoke in the street, tell me if anyone steps up. More over my efforts go to my friends not strangers.
I live in London, (so i have the city attitude with strangers) different areas have slightly different social smoking issues, since we're a crowded 9 million in a very small area that is heavily dependant on public transport, issues on smoking become more noticible then an area with where there's space.

Ya know, I would like to meet you in person. I would like to show you that if you say anything it'll result in nothing, but knowing that you hate I wouldn't directly do it in front of you, I'll more than likely wait, or make sure it doesn't go around you. I will also tell you if someone tells me to stop smoking in public and I'll tell you what I did to them. Which'll be walk by them without a care.


so understand the actual sad fact that non smokers either have to hold their breath or poison themselves a little. Breathing is as essential as keeping my heart healthy, I don't have a choice in the matter, you do
Human bodies have no choice to supply oxygen to their brains.
Human beings have a choice to smoke - so if your own personal choice is at risk of harming others, then its 'your responsibility' to be considerate.

Ahh, more of my inner thought when it come to people I don't know. You are right, of course, I won't say anything about that. The question is, do I care? Somwhat... Around young children, I will go out of my way to make sure that no smoke goes near them. However, that's where my caring stops.


then why are you taking this personally and attacking me, when im giving my opinion on smokers in general

I attack personally (which I do apologize for >.>) because many people label smokers like that. In fact the inconsiderate ones are the people who are in the smaller group.

I'd also like to say that nothing can be more effective than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRHvZazd4IM

[Tom]

This thread is populated by fucking morons. Pseudo intellectuals and pansy asses who talk big piles of ego diarrhea soup in a can. Jesus, wordy worthlessness at its finest in this hater heaven.

[Beckie]

Ok...I'm gonna try this. Whatever happens, happens. <:/

I don't really care about the details. I think smoking is a bad thing to do. I don't understand why one would start doing it in the first place. That's money that could be spent on something more...enjoyable? Not saying smoking isn't enjoyable for some, but...whatever, it's all subjective anyway.

I know (not from experience) that smoking is a hard habit to quit because of dependency and all that. Really, this is a coulda/shoulda/woulda thing...or shouldn't, rather. You wouldn't have to worry about quitting if you hadn't started in the first place and people wouldn't have started if cigarettes weren't invented. Unfortunately, that's a pointless thing to mention because it's in the past and nothing can be done about that. Sooo...try your best and good luck...seriously! :D

As for the ban, I dunno...I think family-oriented places should not allow smoking. I just thought of this (and this is a horrible comparison, but) smoking for some people is like sex (or some other personal activity). If some people walked in and started doin' stuff, I'd be like, "wtf," but I walked in on some people, I'd leave immediately (as would most people, I hope). I don't what that was, but...I guess...smoking is a personal activity! It should be done where it won't bother/disturb other people! It's quite a problematic dilemma because of addiction issues and pangs and whatnot.

When I'm around smoke, I hold my breath (or try not to breath too much through my nose) 'cause it smells really bad to me. I do the same for anything that smells bad. :/ I would probably not purposefully hang around a person who smelled of smoke, and I don't think that makes me a judgemental bitch-ho 'cause...I'm sure most would do the same to someone who smelled bad in general. <<;; At the same time, though...if I knew you, I guess I would just endure it...that's just how I am with anything, though.

Buh.
The previous was a lot raw, yet incomplete thoughts...

Oh, and I don't see why people are getting so upset. This is a discussion, stop trying to prove the other wrong and make yourself sound smart. It's all SUBJECTIVE. You can support your opinion with stats and other facts, but, really, you're not gonna change the other person's mind and even if you do, great. All these personal attacks are not necessary.

:/
Maybe I missed something.

[Windy*]

This thread is populated by fucking morons. Pseudo intellectuals and pansy asses who talk big piles of ego diarrhea soup in a can. Jesus, wordy worthlessness at its finest in this hater heaven.
I doubt that's going to aid the situation, Tom. :\

But along the same lines, I can't even tell what is being debated any more. :D

[Moose]

But along the same lines, I can't even tell what is being debated any more. :D

Well some people are debating whether smoking should be banned outdoors or not, some people are debating whether smoking shoudl be banned completely, some people are debating whether cars=cigarettes, some people are debating whether or not someone should have free will, some people are debating if personal experience should come in to play, some people are debating whether this thread has a point, some are debating whether or not anyones post has any relevance, and some people are debating on the act of debating.

Your classic online forum smoking thread.

[Providence]

I think you should reread the posts I've made in this thread. That last post wasn't supposed to make me sound like an asshole, but I guess that failed. However, I DO go out of my way to smoke around non-smokers that I do know. Hell my roommate has been quitting for some time now. I don't go to his room with a smoke in my hand I'll even not smoke for several hours if we are playing video games and such.

Ignorant people need to realize that smoking is an addcition that can't be easily beaten. What pisses me off the most is the people who don't like smokers even if they don't know them. What you are doing is judging a book by its cover.

I'm fully aware of the addictive quality of smoking. My dad's been smoking since he was a kid.

I was specifically talking about militant smokers though. Ones who simply don't give a shit. I'm fully aware that yes, smokers are people too =P


This thread is populated by fucking morons. Pseudo intellectuals and pansy asses who talk big piles of ego diarrhea soup in a can. Jesus, wordy worthlessness at its finest in this hater heaven.

You have serious problems.

[Queen Anime 99]

Aah. You forgot something. A car can kill you, but smoking will kill you. :D And it hurts my lungs. Second hand smoke sucks. The tobacco industry can kiss my booty. :razz:

Smoking can kill you.

So can a car crash.

I still drive a car. I still smoke.

Tobacco is one of America's largest industries. No smoking = no cigarettes = drop in economy.

[Queen Anime 99]

You seem like a cool dude. However, around a toddler, you shouldn't even be smoking in the house. Smoke travels and the kid's still developing.

When I first read your post, I was stuck with a choice. Do I want to be really mean, or should I try to be nice. I'll stick with neutral. Now, you have graced me with you second post, by defending her. Noble. I do feel sorry for you. That must be a very bad feeling.

Here's the mean part. I will smoke where ever I am able too. I will go away from other non smokers, but if they move to me and expect me to go somewhere else. I won't. I am a good person, but if you bring it on yourself, then I won't bother with it.

Smoking around kids I don't usually do. When I was at my friends place with his one year old running around... Never did I smoke in the same room as him. Now that he's 3 it's harder to be in a different room than him, but he knows that we are smoking and can't climb up on who ever is smoking.

I think I covered it all...

[ClymAngus]

This thread is populated by fucking morons. Pseudo intellectuals and pansy asses who talk big piles of ego diarrhea soup in a can. Jesus, wordy worthlessness at its finest in this hater heaven.

Insightful and wonderfully unexpected but what's that got to do with smoking?

[Tom]

Insightful and wonderfully unexpected but what's that got to do with smoking?

It all just makes me want to have a cigarette.

[ClymAngus]

It all just makes me want to have a cigarette.

Stogies look sexier <3

[ig.]

I'd never be one to turn down a good cigar if the company and situation called for it.

[Ran]

Aah. You forgot something. A car can kill you, but smoking will kill you. :D And it hurts my lungs. Second hand smoke sucks. The tobacco industry can kiss my booty. :razz:

Ah Good Point ^^


Insightful and wonderfully unexpected but what's that got to do with smoking?

Heh !


This thread is populated by fucking morons. Pseudo intellectuals and pansy asses who talk big piles of ego diarrhea soup in a can. Jesus, wordy worthlessness at its finest in this hater heaven.

Man, You Make it sound like something bad has happened in this Thread....
Even if something bad has happened here, It doesnt matter, If People Hate Smoke Thats up to them and If people like to smoke Thats up to them.

This is a Thread on what people Think of Smoking and They can discuss what they Think of it. But Anywayz, Discuss on what you think ^^

~Ran

[Kevin Gillis]

You seem like a cool dude. However, around a toddler, you shouldn't even be smoking in the house. Smoke travels and the kid's still developing.

Don't be stupid... When I said I go out of my way to not smoke in around kids, it means I actually open a window or not smoke at all.

[Tom]

Stogies look sexier <3
Naturellement!


I'd never be one to turn down a good cigar if the company and situation called for it.
We'll light up more than that upon our eventual meeting!


I just had one today! Honey Vanilla Havana!
Delicioso!

[Gabi Star]

Look, the vast majority of smokers understand that smoking in public can bother other people. That's common sense. And most people practice common curtousy as well by standing a bit of a distance from a non-smoker if they have a cig in hand.

The amount of morons who light up next to a non-smoker is about as uncommon as someone who stands in a small crowd just to have a loud cell-phone conversation. Most people would understand the annoyance and take it somewhere else.

Some people are assholes.

Where am I going with this?

..... Oh yeah.

If I have a cigarette in hand, I'm not going to walk up and stand next to a non-smoker while I'm puffing away. That's rude. I understand that. Do a few smokers do that? Sure. Some people are just oblivious, either to other people or just to manners in total.

But its somewhat like how most people talking on the cell phone will excuse themselves from an intimate or serene setting (restaurant, library, ect) to have their conversations where it will inconvenience less people.

That's just human nature.

[Gabi Star]

I'm not sure where you live, however, it is not the case where I live. Even when I am outside talking with people, someone will join our little "circle" or "group" and just... light up.


I live in a fairly urban area. Hm... well, I suppose there are x factors in there somewhere. Like... I'll smoke a cigarette in a group if someone else is smoking as well, or I'll ask if anyone minds.

But Nikkita, if people join an intimate group just to shout on their cell phones where you are, I say move :D

[Gabi Star]

Yes... quiet can be quite deafening to loud's ears.

[Tom]

It was kind of tasty, but kind of left my throat dry by the end of it :S

Did you smoke the whole thing? Usually, several puffs is enough to give me a nice lil' buzz and then I let it go out and save it for later. :D

[Tom]

I think I'm good for the next few years XD
That's how I am with alcohol!

[Tom]

I turn bright red and vomit and sleep in places where I shouldn't be sleeping. O_O

[Gabi Star]

I can drink, and drink, and drink, and drink.... and wake up with no hang over.


...... i envy you......

[Queen Anime 99]

I was being nice to you. Don't be rude to me, okay? Here's what I was replying to:

Smoking around kids I don't usually do. When I was at my friends place with his one year old running around... Never did I smoke in the same room as him. Now that he's 3 it's harder to be in a different room than him, but he knows that we are smoking and can't climb up on who ever is smoking.

"He knows that we are smoking and can't climb up on who ever is smoking." That's what you wrote. This sounds like you smoke in the same house as him, doesn't it? Please do not tell me not to be stupid when you do not fully explain yourself. You only wrote that you didn't smoke around the kid at one. Not now. Oh, and opening a window doesn't help either. Please don't smoke around children at all because they are still developing. Thanks a ton. :D

Don't be stupid... When I said I go out of my way to not smoke in around kids, it means I actually open a window or not smoke at all.

[Kevin Gillis]

You still are stupid... Everytime you type a letter makes you eveen more stupid... Who in their right mind thinks you can tell me what I do or don't.

Trust me, I do make sure he's not in harms why, but you don't think very far ahead... I'm done here

[Queen Anime 99]

Why do you have to resort to name-calling? What the hell is wrong with you? Learn how to write letters to people without being an insulting asshole, alright? I am not telling you what you do or don't do. YOU told me what you do or don't do. It appears to me that you smoke around the kid and now you're lying. Do you even remember what you wrote or did the cigarrettes cause you to forget?

1. "Smoking around kids I don't usually do. When I was at my friends place with his one year old running around... Never did I smoke in the same room as him. Now that he's 3 it's harder to be in a different room than him, but he knows that we are smoking and can't climb up on who ever is smoking." You wrote that. There should be no smoking around children. Do you understand? You admitted it. It appears you are not doing everything to make sure the kid's out of harm way. You sound like you're very selfish.

2. "I actually open a window or not smoke at all." Wow. You open a window. Please don't insult my intelligence if you are the one who thinks opening a window is still okay. There is no either or or. YOU DO NOT LIGHT UP A CIGARRETTE IN THE SAME HOUSE AS A CHILD. Do you understand? Have I made myself clear? Just because the kid is three doesn't mean that its okay to smoke around him. Take your silly butt to the freakin' library to learn about how smoke affects kids. You and your friends should not be smoking until the kid is at least 18. Understand? Or do you want to cause the kid health problems? It'd be pretty sad if that happened because YOU and your friends couldn't put out the cigarrettes for one goddamn minute. Oh, and I hope to God you're not as rude around the kid as you are around me.

I'm done talking to your rude butt. I think far ahead. It appears you don't if you think it's okay to light up and smoke if the window's open. Ha! Maybe I misunderstood you, but that's what you wrote and you should have clarified yourself better instead of calling me stupid like an asshole. Or do you get frustrated with your own inane writing skills and take it out on me? Quit it. I hope that you learn to act like an adult here at VAA and stop being rude towards people who are being polite to you. I have no hard feelings against you, but I don't like your current attitude at all.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
You still are stupid... Everytime you type a letter makes you eveen more stupid... Who in their right mind thinks you can tell me what I do or don't.

Trust me, I do make sure he's not in harms why, but you don't think very far ahead... I'm done here

[Icypopcorn]

No offense Queen, you sort of sound like you're preaching. I mean sure, he said some stuff really rudely, but nothing pisses me off more than when someone is going, 'You DO NOT do this, ect. ect. Do you understand? Because you DON'T' ect. ect. in a debate. You're supposed to give your point and argue it, not preach to people.

Either way, my opinion: I hate smoking. I don't even understand why people do it. I mean, I don't like drugs, but atleast with stuff like Marijuana you get high. With smoking there's like zero benefits whatsoever. Other than relieved stress I guess, but I wouldn't know, because just the smell of smoke gives me a headache, makes me dizzy, and puts me in a bad mood. [I guess cause when I was younger smoke meant asthma attacks. Must be where my extreme hate for smoking came from O_o;] So if there were a way to ban smoking altogether I'd be all for it.
Of course I'm not stupid enough to think that's actually gonna happen, but I DEFINITELY believe smoking should not be allowed indoors unless it's private property and smoking in the same house as minors should be illegal. =]

[Cassie]

My opinion: Nasty habit. Makes your clothes and your breath stink and makes your kisses taste like ash. It's also a waste of money. I tried and I didn't like it and (like others here) can't understand why people like to smoke.

[Amby Leigh]

Illegal? No, I don't think so. If people want to smoke, that is their choice. If they want to slowly kill themselves with toxic chemicals that are slowly eating away at their insides, power to them.

However, just because THEY choice to smoke, doesn't mean that people that choice NOT to smoke should to be subjected to it as well.

I don't think that smoking needs to be completely banned in public places. I think it needs to be regulated as to where and when people can and can't smoke. Indoors, well yes that needs a banning. I don’t see a way to completely separate smokers and non smokers in a restaurant or something like that. It's all the same air in the place so even if you are on the opposite side of the room, eventually the chemicals in the air will float to the non smoking section. Outdoors however, I see no need for a 100% ban. I support their being clearly marked smoking areas were people can smoke. Areas that non smokers can see and just avoid going near if they don't want to inhale the second hand smoke. That is what my campus has done, and it’s very nice now not having to cover my face while walking to class.

[akurah]

Why do you have to resort to name-calling? What the hell is wrong with you? Learn how to write letters to people without being an insulting asshole, alright? I am not telling you what you do or don't do. YOU told me what you do or don't do. It appears to me that you smoke around the kid and now you're lying. Do you even remember what you wrote or did the cigarrettes cause you to forget?

1. "Smoking around kids I don't usually do. When I was at my friends place with his one year old running around... Never did I smoke in the same room as him. Now that he's 3 it's harder to be in a different room than him, but he knows that we are smoking and can't climb up on who ever is smoking." You wrote that. There should be no smoking around children. Do you understand? You admitted it. It appears you are not doing everything to make sure the kid's out of harm way. You sound like you're very selfish.

2. "I actually open a window or not smoke at all." Wow. You open a window. Please don't insult my intelligence if you are the one who thinks opening a window is still okay. There is no either or or. YOU DO NOT LIGHT UP A CIGARRETTE IN THE SAME HOUSE AS A CHILD. Do you understand? Have I made myself clear? Just because the kid is three doesn't mean that its okay to smoke around him. Take your silly butt to the freakin' library to learn about how smoke affects kids. You and your friends should not be smoking until the kid is at least 18. Understand? Or do you want to cause the kid health problems? It'd be pretty sad if that happened because YOU and your friends couldn't put out the cigarrettes for one goddamn minute. Oh, and I hope to God you're not as rude around the kid as you are around me.

I'm done talking to your rude butt. I think far ahead. It appears you don't if you think it's okay to light up and smoke if the window's open. Ha! Maybe I misunderstood you, but that's what you wrote and you should have clarified yourself better instead of calling me stupid like an asshole. Or do you get frustrated with your own inane writing skills and take it out on me? Quit it. I hope that you learn to act like an adult here at VAA and stop being rude towards people who are being polite to you. I have no hard feelings against you, but I don't like your current attitude at all.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Pot? Meet Kettle.

[Gabi Star]

Jesus Christ, Queen.

You do more harm letting your kid eat red meat regularly than smoking next to a window with them in the house.

You make it sound like he's fucking shotgunning the kid or something. Chill the fuck out and grow up.

And you make it sound like the cigarette's fucking glued between his fingers. Assuming that's not the case, I don't see what the huge offense is here.

Stop taking someone else's choices personally. No one cares enough to go out of their way to offend you. It just happens to work that way.

[Matt Cruea]

I'm really shocked that someone bumped a more-than-month old topic and you guys are still ready to be fucking boring.

GOOD JOB, FUCKHATS.

[Ran]

My opinion: Nasty habit. Makes your clothes and your breath stink and makes your kisses taste like ash. It's also a waste of money. I tried and I didn't like it and (like others here) can't understand why people like to smoke.

Well Said Cassie :-)

~Ran

[akurah]

I'm really shocked that someone bumped a more-than-month old topic and you guys are still ready to be fucking boring.

GOOD JOB, FUCKHATS.


Matt Cruea for teh win!

[ig.]

I...NEED...A cigarette(!)

[Tony]

Fine, go ahead and smoke. It's your right. Just don't get mad at me when I decide not to be polite after I eat Mexican food.

[Queen Anime 99]

No offense Queen, you sort of sound like you're preaching. I mean sure, he said some stuff really rudely, but nothing pisses me off more than when someone is going, 'You DO NOT do this, ect. ect. Do you understand? Because you DON'T' ect. ect. in a debate. You're supposed to give your point and argue it, not preach to people.

Either way, my opinion: I hate smoking. I don't even understand why people do it. I mean, I don't like drugs, but atleast with stuff like Marijuana you get high. With smoking there's like zero benefits whatsoever. Other than relieved stress I guess, but I wouldn't know, because just the smell of smoke gives me a headache, makes me dizzy, and puts me in a bad mood. [I guess cause when I was younger smoke meant asthma attacks. Must be where my extreme hate for smoking came from O_o;] So if there were a way to ban smoking altogether I'd be all for it.
Of course I'm not stupid enough to think that's actually gonna happen, but I DEFINITELY believe smoking should not be allowed indoors unless it's private property and smoking in the same house as minors should be illegal. =]

Sorry, Icy, but Gillis really pissed me off with his rudeness and that's why I was like "do you understand?" and crap. I was not preaching though. How exactly is telling him not to smoke around a kid preaching? That's very good advice. I didn't say he should stop smoking or that smoking was bad or any of that crap. I don't know why you're jumping on me.

[Icypopcorn]

Sorry, Icy, but Gillis really pissed me off with his rudeness and that's why I was like "do you understand?" and crap. I was not preaching though. How exactly is telling him not to smoke around a kid preaching? That's very good advice. I didn't say he should stop smoking or that smoking was bad or any of that crap. I don't know why you're jumping on me.

I said you said it in a manner that made you sound like you were preaching, not that what you were saying was preaching.

Advice would be, "You really shouldn't smoke around the kid. It's not healthy for him, it can do this and this and this even at this age ect. ect."
Preaching is: "YOU DO NOT LIGHT A CIGARETTE NEXT TO A CHILD! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?! Him being THREE YEARS OLD DOESN'T make it OKAY! You DO NOT do that, you hear?! Ect. ect. ect."
See the difference. =] Even if someone says something rude, in a debate you've always gotta keep your cool or you've sunk down to their level.

[Shintarou Inuzuka]

Here's my opinion.

If you're an adult, it's your choice whether to engage in risky behaviour as long as it does not put others at risk. I don't myself condone smoking, but putting a COMPLETE ban on it would be a bit hypocritical if you did not put a ban on everything else that could be construed as dangerous, which in turn would lead to basically unheard-of levels of government control. However, there is a flip side to that. If you're gonna smoke, be respectful about it, and try to avoid non-smokers who don't want to breathe it in. That means finding the right place to do it. You want to do it outside, not right near any buildings, or in a designated smoking area, fine, but it's rude to do it for example right in front of a doorway (especially when people pretty much HAVE to go through the doorway, such as in front of the doorway to a residence hall, apartment or school building) or in a public, indoor setting where it impedes on others' right to enjoy themselves. Basically, my view is kinda similar to "my right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose" -- basically, if you want to damage your body like that at the expense of no one else, that's your decision, and I do not support people trying to pass laws to ban you making that decision as long as you're the legal age to be making that decision, but I would draw the line at when it starts to have a negative impact on others. (It's similar to driving -- if you're driving like a responsible person, it's perfectly fine, but if you're driving in a manner that puts others in harm's way, then there's a problem.) In other words, if you're gonna smoke, do so in a responsible manner. I don't believe that the government stepping in is a good idea, as that'll lead to a slippery slope, and I don't want to even think about where it's gonna lead, but it's up to the people making the decision to smoke to do so in a manner that allows both them and those who wish to not breathe in their smoke to have their way.

[Queen Anime 99]

Icypopcorn. Please go back a few pages and read the conversation between him and me (Page 12, I think). At first, I was speaking politely (I even called him a "cool dude.) However, Gillis continued to call me stupid (as you'll see) and I became infuriated. I shouldn't have done that, but I was not doing that in the beginning.

I said you said it in a manner that made you sound like you were preaching, not that what you were saying was preaching.

Advice would be, "You really shouldn't smoke around the kid. It's not healthy for him, it can do this and this and this even at this age ect. ect."
Preaching is: "YOU DO NOT LIGHT A CIGARETTE NEXT TO A CHILD! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?! Him being THREE YEARS OLD DOESN'T make it OKAY! You DO NOT do that, you hear?! Ect. ect. ect."
See the difference. =] Even if someone says something rude, in a debate you've always gotta keep your cool or you've sunk down to their level.

[Cassie]

Just remember: Hate the smoke, not the smoker...

Unless the smoker is a real asshole.

[akurah]

Icypopcorn. Please go back a few pages and read the conversation between him and me (Page 12, I think). At first, I was speaking politely (I even called him a "cool dude.) However, Gillis continued to call me stupid (as you'll see) and I became infuriated. I shouldn't have done that, but I was not doing that in the beginning.


Again, pot, meet kettle. You're twins!

If you are half as polite and intelligent as you feel you are, you would have dropped this when he became belligerent. Just because he "started" it doesn't mean you don't look as stupid as he does.


YOU DO NOT LIGHT UP A CIGARRETTE IN THE SAME HOUSE AS A CHILD.

That is preachy.

Some things are common sense. Most smokers I know smoke outside. On the rare occasion I smoke, I smoke outside. I don't smoke around kids, and most mature smokers have similiar habits.

You are so anti-smoking that it would put off any smoker. You're obnoxious about it! You want smokers to be polite? Don't be obnoxious to them, be polite.

[Queen Anime 99]

Pot meet kettle? What? Polite meet Rude. Did you follow the entire conversation or what? I was polite, he was rude, I was rude back. Don't know what point you're trying to make... except to repeat what you had written previously. I can read. Thanks. Sorry I didn't reply to your comment.

It's not common sense as you say. Some of my relatives smoke around their children. Thanks. Again, please look at the ENTIRE conversation between me and him before you jump in. It sounded like he said he smoked around children and that's why I replied. POLITELY at first.

Anti-smoking? Please give me an example of me being anti-smoking. Until you can find an example of me being anti-smoking, please do not say that I am anti-smoking. All I said was don't smoke around children. That's it. How exactly is that anti-smoking? If you think telling someone not to smoke around kids is anti-smoking, then you've got problems. I'm sorry if you perceive me that way, but I am not.

Woah. There you go again. I didn't say I want "smokers" to be polite. I was talking about Gillis only. Not you. Not other smokers. Gillis. Did I say "Hey you stupid smokers, stop smoking around children!" No. "I said GILLIS, please don't smoke around children. Thanks." And I said "Hey GILLIS, don't be rude." Not "Hey smokers, don't be rude." What are you reading?!!! Please tell me what you are reading? Did my alien twin write messages while I was asleep?!! I was talking to GILLIS. Not you or anyone else. Gillis, okay? You are reading way too much into my sentences or something. Quit being paranoid.

I WAS being polite and then GILLIS decided to act rude. I acted rude after his comment though I shouldn't have done that. Please read the ENTIRE CONVERSATION (page 12. Find it and read ALL THE WAY through before replying back) before jumping in and acting like you know what I was talking about. I'm not anti-smoker, but if you think that I am, you're extremely paranoid and I can't help you. Quick! Let's stop the anti-smokers before it's too late! Aaaah! -_- I'm not a fan of smoking, but if someone wants to smoke, that's fine with me. I'm a "do whatever you want" type of person. Just don't do it RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and I'm fine. Thanks.

P.S. If I'm so anti-smoking, I wouldn't be insulted be your comment that I'm so obnoxious that I would put off smokers. ^_^

Again, pot, meet kettle. You're twins!

If you are half as polite and intelligent as you feel you are, you would have dropped this when he became belligerent. Just because he "started" it doesn't mean you don't look as stupid as he does.



That is preachy.

Some things are common sense. Most smokers I know smoke outside. On the rare occasion I smoke, I smoke outside. I don't smoke around kids, and most mature smokers have similiar habits.

You are so anti-smoking that it would put off any smoker. You're obnoxious about it! You want smokers to be polite? Don't be obnoxious to them, be polite.

[Kei]

So...he can't smoke around kids...but everyone else can?

Wow you sure do make sense madam bitch.

oh I'm sorry that was rude, but stop pushing your damn opinion on everyone else!!!

[Matt Cruea]

Queen Anime 99 sucks in this forum.

Smokers have almost no ground in a smoking debate. "I'll do what I want 'cause I'm an adult" don't cut it. It's addiction, you're a weak addict, do something about it, chumps, or die quicker. You're wasting valuable space in the line at the 7-11.

Anti-Smokers should leave smokers alone because you shouldn't really judge them. Sure, they're weak, but just because they smoke doesn't mean they're dickheads. Sure, they COULD be dickheads, but science has proven smoke has nothing to do with dickheadiness (however, scientists have also proven that pretentious people all smoke, and are all dickheads, so the jury's still out).

In other words, I win this argument because I used the word "dickhead" five times in this post. You can try and do more, but five is a nice even number and I did it first.

[HyperFaerie]

This thread makes me giggle.:razz:

[akurah]

I WAS being polite and then GILLIS decided to act rude. I acted rude after his comment though I shouldn't have done that. Please read the ENTIRE CONVERSATION (page 12. Find it and read ALL THE WAY through before replying back) before jumping in and acting like you know what I was talking about. I'm not anti-smoker, but if you think that I am, you're extremely paranoid and I can't help you. Quick! Let's stop the anti-smokers before it's too late! Aaaah! -_- I'm not a fan of smoking, but if someone wants to smoke, that's fine with me. I'm a "do whatever you want" type of person. Just don't do it RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and I'm fine. Thanks.


Yes, I read the entire conversation--in fact, I went back and read it twice. Did you read my post? I'll say it again, since you're so fond of me repeating myself:
If you are half as polite and intelligent as you feel you are, you would have dropped this when he became belligerent. Just because he "started" it doesn't mean you don't look as stupid as he does.

What I meant by that? He started it, you tried to "finish" it--thereby making you look like a bitch in the process.

If this was such a "personal" fight between you and this person, why was it wasting space in the thread? There is something called PM.

[Ran]

Pot meet kettle? What? Polite meet Rude. Did you follow the entire conversation or what? I was polite, he was rude, I was rude back. Don't know what point you're trying to make... except to repeat what you had written previously. I can read. Thanks. Sorry I didn't reply to your comment.

It's not common sense as you say. Some of my relatives smoke around their children. Thanks. Again, please look at the ENTIRE conversation between me and him before you jump in. It sounded like he said he smoked around children and that's why I replied. POLITELY at first.

Anti-smoking? Please give me an example of me being anti-smoking. Until you can find an example of me being anti-smoking, please do not say that I am anti-smoking. All I said was don't smoke around children. That's it. How exactly is that anti-smoking? If you think telling someone not to smoke around kids is anti-smoking, then you've got problems. I'm sorry if you perceive me that way, but I am not.

Woah. There you go again. I didn't say I want "smokers" to be polite. I was talking about Gillis only. Not you. Not other smokers. Gillis. Did I say "Hey you stupid smokers, stop smoking around children!" No. "I said GILLIS, please don't smoke around children. Thanks." And I said "Hey GILLIS, don't be rude." Not "Hey smokers, don't be rude." What are you reading?!!! Please tell me what you are reading? Did my alien twin write messages while I was asleep?!! I was talking to GILLIS. Not you or anyone else. Gillis, okay? You are reading way too much into my sentences or something. Quit being paranoid.

I WAS being polite and then GILLIS decided to act rude. I acted rude after his comment though I shouldn't have done that. Please read the ENTIRE CONVERSATION (page 12. Find it and read ALL THE WAY through before replying back) before jumping in and acting like you know what I was talking about. I'm not anti-smoker, but if you think that I am, you're extremely paranoid and I can't help you. Quick! Let's stop the anti-smokers before it's too late! Aaaah! -_- I'm not a fan of smoking, but if someone wants to smoke, that's fine with me. I'm a "do whatever you want" type of person. Just don't do it RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and I'm fine. Thanks.

P.S. If I'm so anti-smoking, I wouldn't be insulted be your comment that I'm so obnoxious that I would put off smokers. ^_^

Oh Dear....

I Ignored This Drama but I want to step in Before Things get Worse...

Queen A, I Know you giving you opinion on Things, Gillis Shouldnt have called you Stupid but The Post you wrote after That, It sounded Like you were angry (No Offence ^^;; Not Trying to offend you ^^; ) and The More Posts you wrote The worse it got its Like adding More Gas to make the Fire Stronger...

It'd be best If you could Stop Arguing with Him because I Don't want Heavy Drama to Break Loose...

Trust Me Ive Been There....

Yeah I also Hate it when People smoke around Kids But what can we do Sadly....:-( Poor Kids...

So It'd be Best To end This Now before it gets worse, Im not on Anyones Side so don't worry ^^

Take care!

~Ran

[Icypopcorn]

Queen, you should feel special that you're the amusement of a fifteen year old. =P


Icypopcorn. Please go back a few pages and read the conversation between him and me (Page 12, I think). At first, I was speaking politely (I even called him a "cool dude.) However, Gillis continued to call me stupid (as you'll see) and I became infuriated. I shouldn't have done that, but I was not doing that in the beginning.
Um, the beginning is not the point, dearie. The point is your reaction. And the way you were acting.
You just said in this post that you shouldn't have acted that way after he was being rude, so PLEASE tell my why the hell you're still arguing about this if you've accepted it? Really all I was doing was pointing it out and telling you to change it, not to start a huge argument about it.


I was polite, he was rude, I was rude back. Don't know what point you're trying to make...
Oh dear this is oh so contradictory to the post before this one I just quoted. Look, The point she's trying to make and I'm trying to make is that when someone is rude in a debate, you're not supposed to be rude back! You're should keep your cool. Which you most obviously did not do, then said you did and shouldn't have, and then said there was absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. You're making no sense, girlie. =]



It's not common sense as you say. Some of my relatives smoke around their children. Thanks. Again, please look at the ENTIRE conversation between me and him before you jump in. It sounded like he said he smoked around children and that's why I replied. POLITELY at first.
Like I said, the beginning of the conversation really doesn't matter. The point isn't even about the conversation, it's about your delivery and reaction to a rude response. And YES I read the conversation! I normally read atleast the last five or six pages of a debate topic before posting my opinion.



Anti-smoking? Please give me an example of me being anti-smoking. Until you can find an example of me being anti-smoking, please do not say that I am anti-smoking. All I said was don't smoke around children. That's it. How exactly is that anti-smoking? If you think telling someone not to smoke around kids is anti-smoking, then you've got problems. I'm sorry if you perceive me that way, but I am not.
Um, and what's wrong with being anti-smoking? There's nothing wrong with being anti-smoking. You can be anti-smoking and still accept that it's never gonna get a complete ban. Now if you're anti-smoking in a Queen Anime 99 fashion, that's different. =]



Woah. There you go again. I didn't say I want "smokers" to be polite. I was talking about Gillis only. Not you. Not other smokers. Gillis. Did I say "Hey you stupid smokers, stop smoking around children!" No. "I said GILLIS, please don't smoke around children. Thanks." And I said "Hey GILLIS, don't be rude." Not "Hey smokers, don't be rude." What are you reading?!!! Please tell me what you are reading? Did my alien twin write messages while I was asleep?!! I was talking to GILLIS. Not you or anyone else. Gillis, okay? You are reading way too much into my sentences or something. Quit being paranoid.
Um, exactly what Kei said. NOW you're saying that Gillis can't smoke around children but other people can. Okay...? This debate isn't about Gillis. It's about people in general. And I'm sure Gillis isn't the only one that smokes around kids. And if you're being rude and preachy to Gillis, are you saying the rest of the smoking population doesn't give a shit just because it wasn't directed at them? It still pertains to them, essentially. Unless you wanna pass a law that only Gillis cannot smoke around children. Good luck with that one, honey. [Except I probably should not be calling you honey because you are most likely older than me. But I guess mental age is what matters.]


I WAS being polite and then GILLIS decided to act rude. I acted rude after his comment though I shouldn't have done that. Please read the ENTIRE CONVERSATION (page 12. Find it and read ALL THE WAY through before replying back) before jumping in and acting like you know what I was talking about. I'm not anti-smoker, but if you think that I am, you're extremely paranoid and I can't help you. Quick! Let's stop the anti-smokers before it's too late! Aaaah! -_- I'm not a fan of smoking, but if someone wants to smoke, that's fine with me. I'm a "do whatever you want" type of person. Just don't do it RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and I'm fine. Thanks.
... You are just absolutely hilarious. I don't even NEED to say anything about this.


P.S. If I'm so anti-smoking, I wouldn't be insulted be your comment that I'm so obnoxious that I would put off smokers. ^_^
Um, that sentence made no sense...?

[Tony]

You really wanna have fun with a smoker? Spray pure oxygen at them. Pretty fire go poof.

[HyperFaerie]

You really wanna have fun with a smoker? Spray pure oxygen at them. Pretty fire go poof.

Want to have fun with a non-smoker? Aim that poofy, pretty fire at them, then smoke them...mmmm burnt flesh :D

[Ran]

You really wanna have fun with a smoker? Spray pure oxygen at them. Pretty fire go poof.

Lol!! Thats Funny Tony :-)

~Ran

[Queen Anime 99]

Yes, there is a PM. You could have also PMed me before starting an argument with me instead of wasting thread space. Also, see my response to IcyPopcorn's post . And yes, I shouldn't have even replied to his smartass comments. Said that awhile ago. Thanks. Please don't reply to this.

Yes, I read the entire conversation--in fact, I went back and read it twice. Did you read my post? I'll say it again, since you're so fond of me repeating myself:
If you are half as polite and intelligent as you feel you are, you would have dropped this when he became belligerent. Just because he "started" it doesn't mean you don't look as stupid as he does.

What I meant by that? He started it, you tried to "finish" it--thereby making you look like a bitch in the process.

If this was such a "personal" fight between you and this person, why was it wasting space in the thread? There is something called PM.

[Queen Anime 99]

Icypopcorn, I know you were trying to give me advice, but I didn't appreciate you jumping onto me only. And it didn't look like you had read all the comments. You wouldn't have said I was "preachy." You would have realized that I was just steaming mad. Mad at his rudeness.

Icy, why are you jumping into my conversation with Akurah? You're still trying to argue with me, then. Akurah said that I wanted all smokers to be polite, which I assumed meant being nice in general and not having to do with smoking. I was mad at Gillis's rudeness and not his smoking. Or other people's smoking. I admit that I did add his smoking in there when I was "preaching", but I was really pissed off at his attitude. That's why stuff was in capital letters. I would not be yelling at other smokers if they weren't rude to me. You know that's not how I am. Hell, I made a comment to Gibi or whatever and I was not preachy or yelling at her. I was yelling at Gillis because he was being rude to me. I was NOT directing my anger at all smokers who smoked around children. It bothers me, but it doesn't make me so angry like I was at Gillis. I would not be yelling at them like that. I combined my educational comments about smoking with my anger at Gillis to make that disgustingly rude letter. I hope that makes sense.

You completely misunderstood what I was saying. You think you know what I'm getting at, but you don't. So please don't look down on me and call me "honey." I didn't appreciate that. That was an uneccessarily rude comment when I was not being rude to you. It's not okay to belittle me just because I'm making you mad. Especially if you are telling me not to act that way either. You are not mentally older if you have to do that. I was pissed off more at Gillis's attitude. I was directing my anger only at him because he was calling me stupid. You misunderstood me.

Icypopcorn, please just quit talking to me, alright? You think you know what you are talking about, but you don't. This isn't an insult. You are reading things one way, but I see them another way. I SAID that I shouldn't have been rude like that. I admitted it. I shouldn't have done that. And I shouldn't have even talked about the past comments that lead up to my rude comment. I was trying to justify why I acted the way I did, but I shouldn't have done that either. I should have just taken your advice and been like "Okay. Thanks."

I guess the main problem I had was that you only jumped on me. I thought that was fucked up. You should have jumped on Gillis, too, because he was the one who started being rude to me. I shouldn't have retaliated like that, but I don't know why you only jumped on me. I don't know what was so funny about me saying that I am a "whatever" kind of person, either. You don't know ANYTHING about me, so don't laugh when I say that.

I don't know why I'm still arguing with people about an argument that's already over with. I like you Icypopcorn, but you really don't understand what I was getting at. Please do not reply to this. Thanks. Oh, and the last sentence did make sense. Read it again.

P.S. You completely missed what I was getting at with the anti-smoking stuff. Akurah accused me of being anti-smoking and I said I hadn't made any comments about me being anti-smoking. She assumed that my comments about telling Gillis not to smoke around children was anti-smoking. I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong or right with being anti-smoking. I was just telling him that I had not said I was anti-smoking. Personally, I'm whatever (i.e. I don't know) until someone smokes in front of me or a child. I'm annoyed as crap, but not "anti-smoking." I'm not one to be for banning smoking. I'm still wishy-washy on that issue.


Queen, you should feel special that you're the amusement of a fifteen year old. =P


Um, the beginning is not the point, dearie. The point is your reaction. And the way you were acting.
You just said in this post that you shouldn't have acted that way after he was being rude, so PLEASE tell my why the hell you're still arguing about this if you've accepted it? Really all I was doing was pointing it out and telling you to change it, not to start a huge argument about it.


Oh dear this is oh so contradictory to the post before this one I just quoted. Look, The point she's trying to make and I'm trying to make is that when someone is rude in a debate, you're not supposed to be rude back! You're should keep your cool. Which you most obviously did not do, then said you did and shouldn't have, and then said there was absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. You're making no sense, girlie. =]


Like I said, the beginning of the conversation really doesn't matter. The point isn't even about the conversation, it's about your delivery and reaction to a rude response. And YES I read the conversation! I normally read atleast the last five or six pages of a debate topic before posting my opinion.


Um, and what's wrong with being anti-smoking? There's nothing wrong with being anti-smoking. You can be anti-smoking and still accept that it's never gonna get a complete ban. Now if you're anti-smoking in a Queen Anime 99 fashion, that's different. =]


Um, exactly what Kei said. NOW you're saying that Gillis can't smoke around children but other people can. Okay...? This debate isn't about Gillis. It's about people in general. And I'm sure Gillis isn't the only one that smokes around kids. And if you're being rude and preachy to Gillis, are you saying the rest of the smoking population doesn't give a shit just because it wasn't directed at them? It still pertains to them, essentially. Unless you wanna pass a law that only Gillis cannot smoke around children. Good luck with that one, honey. [Except I probably should not be calling you honey because you are most likely older than me. But I guess mental age is what matters.]


... You are just absolutely hilarious. I don't even NEED to say anything about this.


Um, that sentence made no sense...?

[Kei]

Icypopcorn, I know you were trying to give me advice, but I didn't appreciate you jumping onto me only. And it didn't look like you had read all the comments. You wouldn't have said I was "preachy." You would have realized that I was just steaming mad. Mad at his rudeness.

Icy, why are you jumping into my conversation with Akurah? You're still trying to argue with me, then. Akurah said that I wanted all smokers to be polite, which I assumed meant being nice in general and not having to do with smoking. I was mad at Gillis's rudeness and not his smoking. Or other people's smoking. I admit that I did add his smoking in there when I was "preaching", but I was really pissed off at his attitude. That's why stuff was in capital letters. I would not be yelling at other smokers if they weren't rude to me. You know that's not how I am. Hell, I made a comment to Gibi or whatever and I was not preachy or yelling at her. I was yelling at Gillis because he was being rude to me. I was NOT directing my anger at all smokers who smoked around children. It bothers me, but it doesn't make me so angry like I was at Gillis. I would not be yelling at them like that. I combined my educational comments about smoking with my anger at Gillis to make that disgustingly rude letter. I hope that makes sense.

You completely misunderstood what I was saying. You think you know what I'm getting at, but you don't. So please don't look down on me and call me "honey." I didn't appreciate that. That was an uneccessarily rude comment when I was not being rude to you. It's not okay to belittle me just because I'm making you mad. Especially if you are telling me not to act that way either. You are not mentally older if you have to do that. I was pissed off more at Gillis's attitude. I was directing my anger only at him because he was calling me stupid. You misunderstood me.

Icypopcorn, please just quit talking to me, alright? You think you know what you are talking about, but you don't. This isn't an insult. You are reading things one way, but I see them another way. I SAID that I shouldn't have been rude like that. I admitted it. I shouldn't have done that. And I shouldn't have even talked about the past comments that lead up to my rude comment. I was trying to justify why I acted the way I did, but I shouldn't have done that either. I should have just taken your advice and been like "Okay. Thanks."

I guess the main problem I had was that you only jumped on me. I thought that was fucked up. You should have jumped on Gillis, too, because he was the one who started being rude to me. I shouldn't have retaliated like that, but I don't know why you only jumped on me. I don't know what was so funny about me saying that I am a "whatever" kind of person, either. You don't know ANYTHING about me, so don't laugh when I say that.

I don't know why I'm still arguing with people about an argument that's already over with. I like you Icypopcorn, but you really don't understand what I was getting at. Please do not reply to this. Thanks. Oh, and the last sentence did make sense. Read it again.

P.S. You completely missed what I was getting at with the anti-smoking stuff. Akurah accused me of being anti-smoking and I said I hadn't made any comments about me being anti-smoking. She assumed that my comments about telling Gillis not to smoke around children was anti-smoking. I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong or right with being anti-smoking. I was just telling him that I had not said I was anti-smoking. Personally, I'm whatever (i.e. I don't know) until someone smokes in front of me or a child. I'm annoyed as crap, but not "anti-smoking." I'm not one to be for banning smoking. I'm still wishy-washy on that issue.


Okay look, Gillis was being rude. He was being truthful you are stupid, and everytime you post you show us time and again.

Okay we get it, you don't like smoking. So what, your never gonna make a difference so all you can do is sit there and deal with it. How dare you preach to us about what we should and shouldn't do around children. Its completely and utterly our choice! A child goes through dangerous things everyday, as do you and me...and everyone in the god damn world.

Stop fucking whining that everyones picking on you, when your clearly trying to get everyone to pick on Gillis. Your a terrible debater, and your 'points' are just being repeated every time you post. I don't care if you don't like Gillis but taking out your hate of every smoker, out on solely him is both imature and spineless.

You absolutely disgust me.

Go take up and smoking and shut the fuck up.

ALSO: You speak like a fucking child "WHY ARE YOU PICKING ON ME, GILLIS DID IT TOO TT___TT waaaaaa" jeez...act your age.

[Ran]

Yes, there is a PM. You could have also PMed me before starting an argument with me instead of wasting thread space. Also, see my response to IcyPopcorn's post . And yes, I shouldn't have even replied to his smartass comments. Said that awhile ago. Thanks. Please don't reply to this.

Well If you PM'd, Good for you ^^ and I hope all This Drama Madness Is Over ^^

Okay On A Smoking Related Topic : Ive been surrounded By Ciggarete Smoke and Its Hurt My Throat!!

I wish I wasnt There lol!

~Ran

[Myokei-kun]

I smoked before, but I didn't like it, and I haven't done it since.

I also think it should be banned in more places, I'm sick of smelling smoke everywhere I go. I'm glad that some places have special smoking areas, but personally, I think smoking should only be allowed in one's home, and banned from public places period.

[Ran]

I smoked before, but I didn't like it, and I haven't done it since.

I also think it should be banned in more places, I'm sick of smelling smoke everywhere I go. I'm glad that some places have special smoking areas, but personally, I think smoking should only be allowed in one's home, and banned from public places period.

Just In Homes? As long as the Kids cant smell it/or arnt near Smoke then its Okay ^^ or People could Buy a Shed to smoke in lol (Just Kidding)

I Hate the smell of Smoke it just Sucks Heh.

~Ran

[Queen Anime 99]

Everyone, I would like to apologize for my brief psychotic meltdown. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or scared anyone. I would also like to clarify that I do NOT hate smokers. I judge people by their CHARACTER, not their smoking. Besides, I eat a LOT junk food, so I am certainly in no position to judge anyone. ^_^ Also, my family on my mother's side smokes and I love 'em (Yes, that was completely random.)

Kei, tell your boyfriend to PLEASE not call any more people "stupid." That really hurt my feelings, okay? I was being polite to him, and I was really hurt when he kept calling me stupid. Maybe I am stupid sometimes, but I did not appreciate being treated like that. I do not hate you or your boyfriend and I also apologize for my rude outburst. That was completely childish. Whether you will always hate me or not, I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry. Please accept my apology.

I will not do anything like that every again. Again, I am very sorry. I do not want to become enemies with anyone. Please, no more comments about my outburst. Thanks. Now, back to our original conversation.

[Kei]

>.> apology accepted...for me anyway,

but ya
Smoking=bad habit

[Icypopcorn]

Hmmm just making this post to let you know I actually read yours, but I'm not gonna comment on it any further because yeah.
But what I would like to point out is, that you look into the sky with a telescope, not a microscope...?

[Ran]

Everyone, I would like to apologize for my brief psychotic meltdown. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or scared anyone. I would also like to clarify that I do NOT hate smokers. I judge people by their CHARACTER, not their smoking. Besides, I eat a LOT junk food, so I am certainly in no position to judge anyone. ^_^ Also, my family on my mother's side smokes and I love 'em (Yes, that was completely random.)

Kei, tell your boyfriend to PLEASE not call any more people "stupid." That really hurt my feelings, okay? I was being polite to him, and I was really hurt when he kept calling me stupid. Maybe I am stupid sometimes, but I did not appreciate being treated like that. I do not hate you or your boyfriend and I also apologize for my rude outburst. That was completely childish. Whether you will always hate me or not, I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry. Please accept my apology.

I will not do anything like that every again. Again, I am very sorry. I do not want to become enemies with anyone. Please, no more comments about my outburst. Thanks. Now, back to our original conversation.

No Problem ^^

Nice Post ^^ It All Makes Sence and I'm Glad all This Is Over :-)

~Ran

[akurah]

I smoked before, but I didn't like it, and I haven't done it since.

I also think it should be banned in more places, I'm sick of smelling smoke everywhere I go. I'm glad that some places have special smoking areas, but personally, I think smoking should only be allowed in one's home, and banned from public places period.

I think a complete ban from public places is unfair. I don't smoke inside my home because I don't want to subject my cat or my boyfriend to the smoke--therefore I smoke outside. I tend to keep anywhere from five to ten feet away from nonsmokers as a general rule of thumb, with a few exceptions here and there.

[Queen Anime 99]

That line is from a song called "Why?" by Da Band (P. Diddy's now defunct rap/R & B group). When my brother and I heard it, we laughed our asses off b/c, of course, you do not use a microscope to look at a star. I decided that that must be my signature. ^_^

Hmmm just making this post to let you know I actually read yours, but I'm not gonna comment on it any further because yeah.
But what I would like to point out is, that you look into the sky with a telescope, not a microscope...?

[Icypopcorn]

That line is from a song called "Why?" by Da Band (P. Diddy's now defunct rap/R & B group). When my brother and I heard it, we laughed our asses off b/c, of course, you do not use a microscope to look at a star. I decided that that must be my signature. ^_^

OMG!!!
ARE YOU SERIOUS?! PAHAHHAHA SOMEONE SHOOT ME NOW!
Oh yes, and they failed at life btw. =] I hated Da Band. Danity Kane does it much better. [This is also horribly off topic. sorry. ]= ]

[kariekh]

Hmmm smoking- well I can't say I enjoy it. My Grandmother died from it so I kinda vowed to never smoke again btu in some anime it kinda makes me wanna try it. But Well I don't think I'm going to since when I was little I was once put on a breather just to breath from it so yeah- not in this life. Anyways I say people can smoke as long as the others around them agree with it and everyones happy ^_^

[Kei]

Uh...
Responsible reason kariekh

So you vowed never to smoke cause your grandma died...
Though, you'd try it because an anime character does.
Unless, you were kidding ... I have to say thats a rather lame reason
People don't smoke because they want to be more like an anime character yknow
It's usually because they're addicted and its hard to stop....
Don't ever say that again..
!
!
!
!

[Windy*]

But keiiii omg smoking is cool bc all azns smoke and they do it in teh animez so yah I mean LETS ALL SMOKE

[Zangya]

Hmmm smoking- well I can't say I enjoy it. My Grandmother died from it so I kinda vowed to never smoke again btu in some anime it kinda makes me wanna try it. But Well I don't think I'm going to since when I was little I was once put on a breather just to breath from it so yeah- not in this life. Anyways I say people can smoke as long as the others around them agree with it and everyones happy ^_^

This brings me back to my old thread about that guy who said he was a sorcerer.

Anyway, my dad smokes, and I hate it. He has tried many times to quit, but he always failed.
I don't have a problem with people smoking. It's their choice. As long as they don't do it around me. Yay~

[Queen Anime 99]

Hehe. I know what you're saying. Kariekh, don't smoke! Anime characters don't have lungs!!! :-P

Uh...
Responsible reason kariekh

So you vowed never to smoke cause your grandma died...
Though, you'd try it because an anime character does.
Unless, you were kidding ... I have to say thats a rather lame reason
People don't smoke because they want to be more like an anime character yknow
It's usually because they're addicted and its hard to stop....
Don't ever say that again..
!
!
!
!

[Rosegirl18]

I'd say it's a HUGE issue that even in my own home, just because of another person's stupid, immature decision, I have to be coughing in disgust and getting my lifeline cut in half.
I'm thinking that it's should be a bit of a bigger issue here, since it particularly does horrible things to the voice.

[Kei]

if they live in your house and are an adult, they can do whatever they want. They have a choice to smoke inside or outside, but obviously they don' t know how much it bugs you...if they smoke inside anyway.

How about you let them know instead of complaining about it and, if you tell them, they continue to smoke...than...sorry :/

[Ran]

So you vowed never to smoke cause your grandma died...
Though, you'd try it because an anime character does.
Unless, you were kidding ... I have to say thats a rather lame reason
People don't smoke because they want to be more like an anime character yknow
It's usually because they're addicted and its hard to stop....
Don't ever say that again..




Kei's Got a Point, You Vowed Not to smoke because your Grandma Died, And If your Not Kidding, You tried it because of Anime

Thats a Silly reason, Anime isnt real, You Grandma is :-)

Maybe Anime's tempting you Oh noo lol

~Ran

[Moose]

I'm thinking that it's should be a bit of a bigger issue here, since it particularly does horrible things to the voice.

If you want to specialize in high pitched, painfully cute voices, then it is a horrible thing for your voice. However, if you want to get better at low, gruff, badass voices, then smoking could be that step to make it convincing.

Of course I wouldn't smoke just for that reason, there are plenty of other reasons to smoke.

[Icypopcorn]

Hehe. I know what you're saying. Kariekh, don't smoke! Anime characters don't have lungs!!! :-P

They also don't have lifespans beyond 28 episodes. Or maybe 300 in the case of Sailor Moon.

Rosegirl- Good point. Voice actors more than anything should be cautious about it. Because even if you want to do low voices, sounding like a chain smoker doesn't exactly help and it'll actually lower your range as opposed to widening it.

[TagDaze]

Smoking is a neccesary evil, I guess. As Moose said, the economy leans on it.

I still think (in the long term, but only for economic reasons), smoking should be banned outright. If society protects people who harm others and themselves, ignoring tobacco just means it's doing a half-assed job.

Same for cars too, by the way. Economy runs on oil, for now. We DO need to get cleaner ways of transportation, so I'm not saying cars are the best thing
since sliced bread. I don't drive a car, by the way. I'm usually on my bike or I'm taking the train.

[TagDaze]

The problem is also a lack of recharging stations. This is due to a lack of drivers. This is due to a lack of recharging stations. Etc, etc.
I really don't see the problem with the horsepower anyway. So what if you can drive only 30 kph faster instead of 50?

[ig.]

I want an emission-free vehicle that runs ON CIGARETTE SMOKE. oooOOOOooOOOoOOOo

[Amped2Flash]

In an ideal world, Iggy.

[Zangya]

They also don't have lifespans beyond 28 episodes. Or maybe 300 in the case of Sailor Moon.

Rosegirl- Good point. Voice actors more than anything should be cautious about it. Because even if you want to do low voices, sounding like a chain smoker doesn't exactly help and it'll actually lower your range as opposed to widening it.

=D Chris Sabat smokes, and his voice turned out pretty good for most of the characters he's played. But I guess its because all of them have low, gruff voices. x.x

[Icypopcorn]

=D Chris Sabat smokes, and his voice turned out pretty good for most of the characters he's played.

Well I'm not saying you can't be a voice actor if you smoke [Heck Gerard Way smokes and he's a singer!] but the point is that it WILL eventually fuck up your voice if you keep doing it. That's a fact. And it will slowly affect Chris Sabat's voice, too. [If it hasn't already]

I would make a comment about the cars but it's totalllyyy off topic. =]

[Aramek]

I like to smoke cigars.

I smoke cigars while reading the paper in my den wearing my purple silk smoking vestments discussing how much I love having money and exploiting third world countries, all the while making that puffy, stuffy british gentlemen noise.

[TagDaze]

http://www.r-craven.de/upload/2006/04/monocle.jpg

[ClymAngus]

I like to smoke cigars.

discussing how much I love having money and exploiting third world countries,

Well some people exploit them, other people just blow them up or help them blow themselves up. Fnar Fnar Fnar.

[Kyo_Starr]

Voice actors rely on their voice for a living. Smoking is possibly THE worst thing out there for your throat/mouth/lungs. Hmmm... :???:

...Yeah.

Much as I'd love to obliterate tobacco from the planet, I don't think a smoking ban is practical any more than Prohibition was. I'm all for jacking up the taxes on tobacco products, though! Maybe it'll stop a couple more people from picking up the habit to begin. Or maybe some less well off smokers will have to cut back so they can pay their bills. If it takes a couple of bankruptcies to convince a person to stop smoking, so be it. (No, seriously.) :|

As for the ads... If cigarette companies had existed when Dante was alive, he'd have written in a special ring of hell just for them. I don't believe smoking itself is immoral (unless you consider suicide a sin), but the people who promote cigarettes and get others addicted are no better than-- no, in fact they are-- drug dealers.

Smoking should absolutely be banned in public places, especially restaurants. Don't you hate it when you walk into a restaurant and the smoking section has five free tables and the non-smoking section is packed? Feel free to smoke, but I like my air toxin-free, thanks. My state already outlawed smoking in restaurants, thank God.


That is one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Au contraire, entire buildings have burned because someone, say, lights a cigarette and falls asleep without putting out entirely. I Googled "house fire created by smoking" and got over 485,000 hits. Think about it.

[/harangue] =3

[ElsaHZT]

I absolutely CANNOT stand cigarette smokes (any kind of smoke, actually). I don't get why people smoke. I mean, there is NOTHING good about smoking. NOTHING.

I think government should ban cigarette smoking in public areas (indoors AND outdoors) and designate areas for smokers to smoke. AWAY from public. And they should give out free nicotine patches. >>

[Bivinz]

Smoking is bad for you. Everyone knows this. It's basically marketable poison.

The only reason that it's even legal to begin with is because the goverment makes an unimaginable amount of money from it.

The one and only reason. Think they give a crap what happens to you after they get your money?

Think again.

[Aramek]

I absolutely CANNOT stand cigarette smokes (any kind of smoke, actually). I don't get why people smoke. I mean, there is NOTHING good about smoking. NOTHING.
It pisses off hippies.

So, that's reason enough to smoke in my book.

[DarkFoxSS1]

To smoke, or not to smoke? That... is the question. But for many, the answer comes so easily, there's really no point in asking it.

It's understandable why people would say that smoking is bad. Health wise, it is. Lung cancer and the lot... not exactly a good thing to have to go through, right? This is why it's banned in certain places, or it has it's own place seperate from the rest of the restaurant/mall/whatever.

For those who smoke, it's a willing choice to some extent. They chose to smoke, and when the health risks were shown to them, they either stopped, attempted to stop, or continued to do so because they know they can.

I personally, don't like smoking. Not just because it's unhealthy... it just bugs me. I've lived with smokers all of my life. It's more "you're smoke is in my space," than anything else. I know, it may sound kind of selfish, but that's how I think sometimes. I'm fairly sure this is how others think as well.

I do try to keep my friends away from the stuff, though.

[Refi-chan]

It's more "you're smoke is in my space," than anything else. I know, it may sound kind of selfish, but that's how I think sometimes. I'm fairly sure this is how others think as well.

I feel the same way. I'm allergic to smoke to the extent that I have to hold my breath when I pass people smoking (and even longer depending on the wind) to prevent extreme coughing fits. I don't mean to be rude, but it is horrible to go to the mall and nearly pass out on the way in because of all the smokey air around the entrances-I can only hold my breath for so long you know.

Even if I wasn't allergic, I wouldn't smoke because I don't want it to ruin my vocal chords. I remember in high school choir when the teacher told the alto section they sounded like sopranos that smoke...I don't if he knew the truth about those of them that were. Even if I wasn't into singing and voice acting, I still wouldn't smoke because I don't need it. I have other alternatives to relax that are much less costly. By not smoking, I have one less financial expense to worry about-in my finance class textbook there was an example of someone who decided to stop buying cigarettes and invest that money when he was in his late teens/early 20's, by my age (mid 20's-counting from my first moment of peer pressure on the subject) I have already saved thousands of dollars by choosing not to smoke! Instead I enjoyed graduating from college with no debt!

[Windy*]

Even hookah can get you addicted to nicotine, though. Too bad. :/ You're inhaling MORE nicotine than with a cigarette, usually.

So just be careful with it. :s

[Kuro]

Having done quite a bit of work for "Truth" in my younger days I've become sort of jaded on the situation. I suppose it might be the fact that The American Legacy Foundation were a bunch of mind warping cock suckers, but I digress.

Smoking, much like drinking, is your own choice to make. It's no more harmful to you than drinking or high-fructose corn syrup. The fact that a person would pass any form of legislation to prevent a person from rolling a bit of plant and smoking it is downright silly. (Gasp, did he just say what I think he just said?) In the end it's your body and you can do with it what you please.

This however doesn't mean you can light up and start puffing smoke rings in someones face, places of business should have designated areas if they choose to, to allow smokers a chance to indulge in their habit. Telling a business that they must ban smokers from their building is just plan wrong. Granted that is the situation more often than not, I've never been one to enjoy the status quo.

I guess what I'm getting at is it's fine to ban smoking wherever you wish, but to make it outright illegal is somewhat unconstitutional. If I want to kill myself slowly that's my business, as long as I'm not killing you slowly with my dirty habit.


TL;DR

Fuck Sarah Atkinson.

[ig.]

I smoke fools while I'm in my whip

[Galidan]

I smoke fools while I'm in my whip

2 FAST! 2 FURIOUS!

Represent.

/Galidan

[Kuro]

Is dat sum Teriyaki Boyz I be hearin?

[Antfish]

My dads been smoking since he was 14 and he died 8 years ago becuase of it, and i've seen the pain he's been through becasue of it, so that pretty much made me off limits about it

[Sasu-kitty]

Smoking... Hm..

I smoked for about 3 months after I turned 19 (legal age in Alaska).

After that I quit. I knew my friends didn't like it, so I did it for them.

However, the reason I started in the first place was that when I was younger, I tried it. And it calmed me down a lot. Lately, nothing has really been able to calm me down (the only things that can are certain friends and smoking, really) and that's why I started.

Up here, we have a ban of smoking within 10 feet of any building, unless it's your home, then you can do whatever. That, and most public areas.

But yeah. I'm all for it, as long as you're not around people who you know don't want to be around it. (for an example, at KumoriCon, when I still smoked, I didn't even carry my pack with me when I was around the people I know didn't want me to - sachibelle and others.) I waited until I could walk off on my own, or with another friend that smoked and did it then. And I made damn sure I didn't smell like it. Because I know people hate that.

Anyway, done rambling. I think I got my point across.

[Kuro]

God I could use a fag right now...

[DUUUUUUUUUUH]

I'm just starting to smoke

I have my reasons tho

[Kuro]

I'm just starting to smoke

I have my reasons tho

Enjoy your cancer like the rest of us.

So, whatcha smoking?

[DUUUUUUUUUUH]

Enjoy your cancer like the rest of us.

So, whatcha smoking?



haha, it's not like I'm doing it for life


uhhh tobacco?XD

[ecafrusehtrednu]

Candy-flavored cigarettes.

Light and Luscious cigarettes.

Has anyone actually seen them? It's ridiculous, and at the same time, ridiculously funny to me.

[Kuro]

When I was younger I used to love candy cigarettes. That is before everyone started hiding REAL cigarettes in the package. <<

[Tom]

I still love candy cigarettes. :(

But only the chalky, petrified corn-starch kind. Not the bubble gum kind.

[yukie]

The Popeye ones!

[ig.]

I don't know about you monkeyfunkers, but I just had some fine Dominican Republic tobacco and my head is pleasantly spinning becuase my blood cells are being destroyed.

[BlueShadow]

^ okay that made me lulz

[Ayu]

Its bad for your loungs and everyone else, if you Smoke that doesn't make you cool. Your killing alot of people around you and thats selfish.. And your hurting yourself.. And all the people are you.. :cry:

[Tamekichi]

One thing I can't stand is people who constantly smell like smoke. I'm a baseball player so I'm constantly surrounded by guys spitting tobacco, but when I'm sitting in a computer lab and someone who smells like smoke comes in and sits next to me, I suddenly start to realize that I can't concentrate anymore. And it's never anyone cool who smells like smoke anyway, it's always some burnt out loser.

[Ayu]

One thing I can't stand is people who constantly smell like smoke. I'm a baseball player so I'm constantly surrounded by guys spitting tobacco, but when I'm sitting in a computer lab and someone who smells like smoke comes in and sits next to me, I suddenly start to realize that I can't concentrate anymore. And it's never anyone cool who smells like smoke anyway, it's always some burnt out loser.
Thats trying to act cool.

[Tamekichi]

Thats trying to act cool.
But you see, they arn't. They are burnt out losers.:)

[Ayu]

But you see, they arn't. They are burnt out losers.:)
I so* agree! Thats why I shall never smoke! Its a bad thing! ;-;

EDIT;;

;-; Ewwness.. Typo!

[Tamekichi]

I am agree! Thats why I shall never smoke! Its a bad thing! ;-;
Agreed. It's a bad thing to get addicted at all.

[Ayu]

Agreed. It's a bad thing to get addicted at all.Yeah, really. ^.^ Your a smart person, how old are you?

[Tamekichi]

Yeah, really. ^.^ Your a smart person, how old are you?
I am 18. And thank you. :hug

I would say you are pretty smart as well.

[Ayu]

I am 18. And thank you. :hug

I would say you are pretty smart as well.
Thanks! :hug I am 13. ^.^

[Nuko]

Ahaha~ You're both interesting :3 [Ayu and Tamekichi]

_____________
Anyway - My 2 cents:

I agree, Smoking is quite a terrible habit, probably one of the hardest to quit.. Both my parents smoke and have been trying to quit and I support them 100%!!

But for alot of the people, you need to step into their shoes. Alot start from Stress, Family problems and other reasons.. It's a personal health choice. So if they choose to smoke, let them..

Now I also do believe smokers should be considerate about where they smoke. When it's around non-smokers and children, They should think twice about what they are doing... My parents are very considerate.. When I am with them, they move away and when they are home they smoke outside so nobody gets the second hand smoke.

----Bleh, I babble.

[Ayu]

Ahaha~ You're both interesting :3 [Ayu and Tamekichi]

_____________
Anyway - My 2 cents:

I agree, Smoking is quite a terrible habit, probably one of the hardest to quit.. Both my parents smoke and have been trying to quit and I support them 100%!!

But for alot of the people, you need to step into their shoes. Alot start from Stress, Family problems and other reasons.. It's a personal health choice. So if they choose to smoke, let them..

Now I also do believe smokers should be considerate about where they smoke. When it's around non-smokers and children, They should think twice about what they are doing... My parents are very considerate.. When I am with them, they move away and when they are home they smoke outside so nobody gets the second hand smoke.

----Bleh, I babble.
Thank you! I am happy to be inter..esting!

[Tamekichi]

Thank you! I am happy to be inter..esting!
Heh, yeah, me too. :razz:

[Blue Leader]

In my opinion, if you want to smoke and kill yourself faster, go ahead and do it. It's none of my business. So long as you don't do it around me; I can't stand the smell of it, I think it looks gross, and I have bad asthema anyway.

[MaNa Shuffle]

In my opinion, if you want to smoke and kill yourself faster, go ahead and do it. It's none of my business. So long as you don't do it around me; I can't stand the smell of it, I think it looks gross, and I have bad asthema anyway.

I agree XDD. People can smoke if they want. I wont stop them. As long as they don't smoke near me. Smoke gives me chest pains anyway...

This country has tried various ways to make people to stop smoking. Even if it has worked. It hasn't worked much.

[Ape333]

I saw a poll on AOL news. The question raised was "Should marijuana use be legalized?"

About...Lesse...I believe the figure was around 72%-75% said it should be.

*slaps forehead*

I voted "no", of course, but the sheer amount of people that are for this stuff?? It's ridiculous.

More on topic, I do believe smoking should be banned here and there, in certain resaurants and such.

[Miggypiggy]

My dad smoked while he still lived at home, he would smoke everywhere. In the garden, at the dining table, in his car, everywhere. I hated the smell of cigarettes, and still do. I tried a smoke myself in the past, I spent the next few minutes spitting and literally vomiting.

I don't hate smokers, it's the smoke I'm not fond of.

[Luchia]

I hate it! My mother; father and grandfather smoke...its killing them....my mother has bronchitis beacuse of how long she has been smoking and now she could die...My grandfather all he dose is smoke; he hasnt stopped since he was 12 (WAAYY back when it wasnt "bad"); my dad isnt as bad at the amount I see him...but I am just scared for my grandfather and my mother...I dont want them going dieing cues of smoking; my mother even said she "quit" took lazier and everything...the other night I went up stairs looking for my mom to tell her something the next thing I notice she was out in the garage and I could smell the cigarette...

And my grandfather his car smells like cigarette so when he drives me or my friends places it smells like smoke and coffee its embarrassing :(. I just wish tobacco never existed for such a way...I just wish it would go away...its ruining my family pulling them apart cues they cant live without a cigarette in their mouth... :( and now the next thing I know my grandfather has something up with him cues he cant stop smoking and drinking coffee he dosent eat only toast once a day...

Damn it all I hate everythign there is to do with cigarettes, tabacco and everything! In Ontario they have pretty much banned smoking in alot of places; restaurants, amusement parks, crowded areas with children (parks), and I heard they are thinking of banning people to smoke in their cars with children in them... but I just hate the idea of smoking all together....

So no; I dont like the idea of smoking at all.
(Wow...that was a long post... Oo )

[Zyking]

Tobacco is one of America's largest industries. No smoking = no cigarettes = drop in economy.

there's always gum :D since if smoking was banned, people will turn to alcohol(or something etc.), food(i'd go with food cause turning to food is a natural instinct while turning to drugs isnt :D) or gum.