Goverment Locking the Internet

[Rabids Squirrel]

While I was looking over my older poll of the oppinon of others and furries (and groing hatred in my heart for some of the ignorance -.-x) My freind directed me to the attention of this

Delete online preditors act (http://knowsomethingcool.blogspot.com/)

Now, if this gets passed... lemme say that we're on the "screwed" list. I thought it would be good to bring this all to your attention so that you don't log on one day in the future and go "WTF Where is everything!?"

This act is just another example of overreacting...an EXTREME one...
*EDIT*
Highly sorry for some of the in-accuracy, wasn't totally "with it" when I read the article, I had a total of 11 hours of sleep this week and it was 2 am =\
Anyways, there is also another act they are trying to pass (Though its unlikely it will) that will only allow high speed internet to be used by buisnesses that can afford it, leaving just normal jo's with horrible, worse than dial-up connections.

[Moose]

Umm Rabids, this law is blocking it from SCHOOL servers, obviously not the entire internet. That means that if you go online from a school server, you won't be able to access anything like this. This still kind of sucks, but it's not the government banning Myspace, Xanga, or anything like that.

Yea, the American government has no power over that really seeing as there are many people in other countries who own sites. So no, we won't log in one day and go "OMFG TEH INTERNET IS DED!".

Oh well, still a somewhat valid point of discussion I guess.

[Batgirl]

Meh, many schools all ready block a lot of community sites as is because, well, you're at SCHOOL you're supposed to be working.

The Library kinda sucks because I know people that will use the Library internet to get ahold of people if their internet goes out. But. *shrug* I guess there are always internet cafes for that.

[Moose]

I hate school blocks because they always block stuff you need. We can't download/listen/watch anything. Half the time, people put videos up for projects and we can't watch them, and for a few of my Web Design class/animation class, we were supposed to download sound effecs and music for our site and flash, and we couldn't download stuff, so we had to make the teacher transfer files all the time, and it took about 5 times as long as it should have.

In short, certain sites should be blocked (Newgrounds, Myspace), but blocking all media files is just stupid, especially when it confilcts with the educational process.

Oh wait, is this just about the law, or blocking stuff on school/library computers. If it's the first, then that post was completely irrelevant.

[Batgirl]

I hate school blocks because they always block stuff you need. We can't download/listen/watch anything. Half the time, people put videos up for projects and we can't watch them, and for a few of my Web Design class/animation class, we were supposed to download sound effecs and music for our site and flash, and we couldn't download stuff, so we had to make the teacher transfer files all the time, and it took about 5 times as long as it should have.


Thats the teachers fault for trying to let the internet do their teaching for them. The teacher should either make it a homework assignment, or provide some other alternative than "spend this class time downloading crap off the internet whilst I jerk off"

My mom's a teacher, so I picked up her pet peeve of hating il-prepared/lazy teachers.

[Moose]

Thats the teachers fault for trying to let the internet do their teaching for them. The teacher should either make it a homework assignment, or provide some other alternative than "spend this class time downloading crap off the internet whilst I jerk off"

Seeing as none of us had dreamweaver or flash in our home computers, making it homework wouldn't work for the animation/web design class (although I'm pretty sure that's not what your talking about). When I was talking about the students doing video projects and presenting them to the class and explaining them, and it going right into the crapper because no one could view it. My teachers rarely show videos that aren't student made.

[caejones]

What sucks is when they block community type sites like livejournal on a server for a residential school (not a bording school, or some place with private ethics in mind, but a highschool with a "students live on campus" setup that is meant to reflect college...). ASMSA, for example; they have a whole networking department, so whenever individuals download a bunch of junk, the individuals can have their net access cut off or restricted. But they also have a sonic wall, which ... I'm not even sure who decides what it blocks. Sure, you should work while at school, but hey, the network isn't used only during class time at a school like that. They blocked xanga because an individual event ... something to do with someone wishing ill upon their family and someone offering to carry out violence for them, and someone complained... and I basically had to demand that webmessenger get unblocked, and at one point they blocked freeservers, which I use to update my website... so there was much running involved to find the man in charge.
Ok, maybe some of this blocking is acceptable? They block porn sites, after all. They didn't block, however, any rom sites. Fancy that! Especially considering that the 2005 fall semester they cracked down on video games as a source of slacking off. And they block things on internet sensorship... Etc. A lot of things there make sense, and a lot of them don't, so the whole area of school network sensors is an area that I look at uneasily.

But as for the issue of the government, I don't think a law like this would really help any more than putting in sensors that prevent your kids from typing the words 'blood', 'anime', 'girl', 'gun', 'witch', 'death', 'manga', and 'demon' would help anything. Though this might be on the right track, I really don't have the experience to say anything else on the subject.

[ClymAngus]

Bang goes my plan to introduce the VAA to all the drama courses in the US. Oh well. Nice to see the worlds 2 super powers the US and China have the same healthy view of the internet. :)

[Steven Mane]

After that title caught my eye, I had to see what this was about. Once again, the idiocy of the Republican party takes over. If they ban those web pages, how will people with no other access to the Internet (like me) be able to, for lack of a better term, function? In my case, I use the library to audition and get sources. But it's not like I'm going around putting viruses in computers or soliciting minors. Those people are true idiots and are ruining the Internet for the rest of us. And now, the U.S. government is becoming one of those idiots, if they weren't in the first place.

It's times like these that make me glad I'm a Democrat.

[Batgirl]

Its not like a bunch of republicans are sitting in a room going "hey how can we hamper free speech NOW??"

The internet is pretty much rules-free. That is something we should, as the general public, enjoy very much. The government could go in and do one of those stupid things, like Taxing the internet, or email, or making laws which they, for the most part, don't.

The fact of the matter is there are a LOT of Children falling victim to online sexual predators. Its not the kids fault, its not the parent's fault, its not even the internet's fault. But it IS a problem that MUST be dealt with. Punishing the predators? We do. the PROBLEM with that is HEY They have to RUIN A KIDS CHILDHOOD FIRST in order for us to punish them. So they want to try and PREVENT that. Best way? Block sites where Predators might lurk from Schools and Libraries. Not Businesses, not Homes, not Internet Cafes, just Schools and Libraries.

Like I said, its a nuissance to people with limited internet access, I have a friend that uses the library for internet access.

But well, thats what Internet Cafes are for. Yes, you have to pay for the time you spend in an internet cafe. Normal people have to pay for internet access.

Instead of griping about this, people should be more vocal about Net Neutrality. Now THATS the republicans trying to fuck you over.

[Steven Mane]

Instead of griping about this, people should be more vocal about Net Neutrality.
Any suggestions, anyone, that will actually get the Congress to LISTEN to us? Unfortunately, I do believe that there are Republicans just sitting around and saying "How do we mess with free speech?" Call it Democrat Paranoia, but if we don't get a liberal in soon, this country's screwed. Plain and simple.

[Chrnogirl]

I got around my schools blocking system in serveral ways.

1) Use Livejournal for bloging because my school has yet to block that...and I'm a senior so if they hadn't in all that time then they don't know it's out there.

2) My friend is really good with computers and such so he found a way to get around our school's blocking system....until they blocked that that is...buit it worked for about a semester....bet he's trying to make another one right now.

3) If I wanted to download MP3s (animes ones) I founds sites that weren't blocked that downloaded just fine.

There are loopholes to everything. Nothing is absolute. That's my modo ^_^

[ClymAngus]

Now, now Red neck ya can't go blaming people for trying to protect they're kids.
The method is flawed, draconian and I doubt it'll stop a deadicated fruitloop from finding their next victim. Raids have shown that most freaks have their own computers so they're not going to be crying about it.

Now I'm not one for conspirasy (I can't even spell it properly that's how much I'm not one for it) but lets just play a game of course and effect here;

Cause: Cut interactive sites to schools.
Effect: No law suits against the schools when young billy is grabbed by a ped he's been chatting to.
Effect: Peds can only target richer kids cos their the ones who can afford to be online.

Cause: Cut interactive sites to libraries.
Effect: Cuts access by anyone whom uses the free services to interact with people online.
Effect: Further dispossession of the poor whom cannot afford personal access.


I've got a question for you; do you Really think that this law will in anyway slow down or stop someone whom has made up they're mind to hurt children?
To my mind no it won't.

Does it sound good on paper, but lowsy in practice? Yes!
Will it have wider reprocussions and adversly effect people above and beyond it's original scope? Yup!

Will it get watered down? Well it would keep the liberals happy if it did whilst still appealing to the parental vote. So Probably. :)

[Batgirl]

Now, now Red neck ya can't go blaming people for trying to protect they're kids.
The method is flawed, draconian and I doubt it'll stop a deadicated fruitloop from finding their next victim. Raids have shown that most freaks have their own computers so they're not going to be crying about it.

Now I'm not one for conspirasy (I can't even spell it properly that's how much I'm not one for it) but lets just play a game of course and effect here;

Cause: Cut interactive sites to schools.
Effect: No law suits against the schools when young billy is grabbed by a ped he's been chatting to.
Effect: Peds can only target richer kids cos their the ones who can afford to be online.

Cause: Cut interactive sites to libraries.
Effect: Cuts access by anyone whom uses the free services to interact with people online.
Effect: Further dispossession of the poor whom cannot afford personal access.


I've got a question for you; do you Really think that this law will in anyway slow down or stop someone whom has made up they're mind to hurt children?
To my mind no it won't.

Does it sound good on paper, but lowsy in practice? Yes!
Will it have wider reprocussions and adversly effect people above and beyond it's original scope? Yup!

Will it get watered down? Well it would keep the liberals happy if it did whilst still appealing to the parental vote. So Probably. :)


I think they are less trying to stop the adults from signing on (IE through the library), and more tryinig to stop the kids from signing on without any parental units around.

I agree its flawed, but at the same time, what can the government REALLY do as a preventative measure? Its easy to say, for example, on this site, "You must be 13", but its also easy to lie about your birthday.

Who knows, maybe Libraries can come up with a Kids computer and an Adult computer room, that'd make everyone happy no doubt. ><

[Moose]

I agree its flawed, but at the same time, what can the government REALLY do as a preventative measure? Its easy to say, for example, on this site, "You must be 13", but its also easy to lie about your birthday.
You can always do what video game stores do and ask for identification. Sure, a 13 year old may not carry valid identification all the time, but it's better than nothing. Last I've heard, schools gave out school ID cards with birthdates on them.


Who knows, maybe Libraries can come up with a Kids computer and an Adult computer room, that'd make everyone happy no doubt. ><
That sounds like a good idea, I only have a greivance with two things
1) Adult computer room sounds a little sketchy if you ask me.
2) It would cost a lot of money to get enough computers for everyone, and they may have to start charging for internet use do to all of the computers they would have to buy.

I still say just go to an internet cafe.

[Batgirl]

You can always do what video game stores do and ask for identification. Sure, a 13 year old may not carry valid identification all the time, but it's better than nothing. Last I've heard, schools gave out school ID cards with birthdates on them.


That sounds like a good idea, I only have a greivance with two things
1) Adult computer room sounds a little sketchy if you ask me.
2) It would cost a lot of money to get enough computers for everyone, and they may have to start charging for internet use do to all of the computers they would have to buy.

I still say just go to an internet cafe.


No I don't mean about using computers (for the ID), I mean to be on certain websites. For example, to join the VAA you need to be 13, it covers our asses. But its very easy for any 10 year old to lie about their birthday to access sites they aren't allowed to.

as for the library:
1) An "adult" computer room only sounds sketchy to you because the word "Adult" makes you think porno, whereas I am thinking of a room for either people over 13, 16, or 18 (depending on how the Library would want to handle that) You can't view Porno at Libraries as it is.
2) They wouldn't have to buy any new computers, theoretically the same amount of people are using the computers as before, now they'd just be seperating computers that have locked off internet (for people under the age of XXX (and you can card them since its IRL access)), and computers that have "free" access (or as free as Library access is currently).

Technically Library computers, like school computers, are supposed to be used for research (not socializing) anyway. So *shrug*

[ClymAngus]

Technically Library computers, like school computers, are supposed to be used for research (not socializing) anyway. So *shrug*

I 100% agree right up until this line. ^ Libraries of all places should have the technology to police access to 2 separate access points, one "Cabbage Patch" internet and the other "free to air" connection. I'm sure they'll come to this on their own. Librarians tend to be well read and fairly liberal. Hell, it could be based on the library card system which already contains age related information anyway.

My disagreement lies with the definitions of "research" and "socialising" these are fairly subjective terms any minute to minute web surf can vector between eather several times. Also the way in which information is used is also subjective. The VAA for instance has social/political commentry (like this thread) Tutorials right the way through to the purely social. To a certain extent the two terms are intertwined; To research, to understand, to know, to discover. Socialise; to interact with others which leads inevitably to the exchange of knowledge, viewpoint or emotive condition.

Libraries as information centres are evolving from their static view of information retreval. I hope they can do so at a reasonable pace to be of use to the public, in an ever changing world.

[Batgirl]

I 100% agree right up until this line.

Libraries as information centres are evolving from their static view of information retreval. I hope they can do so at a reasonable pace to be of use to the public, in an ever changing world.

I'm glad you agree 100% up to that line, since that line I don't really Care about or pretend to defend anyway lol. It was just sort of a throw-away at the end that in all technicality it could be argued that Library computers are used for doing research, as opposed to checking out Livejournal, Myspace, email, chat rooms, etc.

I think, though, that for adults (adult being definied by whatever the library chooses), message boards, community sites, and the like should be allowed. Like you said, information can be found at message boards, and guidance given, heck even interviews can be conducted.

I was just throwing that technicality in at the end, that if it HAD to be an "all or nothing" sort of issue (which it really doesn't have to be) Library computers are Technically offered to the public for free under the assumption that people are using them for more "noble" endeavors than Myspace or Livejournal.

[Steven Mane]

My apologies, Clym. I'm a bit obsessive... Okay, very obsessive. But that's truly how I feel about it. And yes, you're right when you say that no Internet access won't stop the pedophiles. But then again, there are children on this board too. Did you see the thread some idiot put in the General Chat? All of those links lead obviously to porn sites. It's idiots like that who should be kicked off the Internet, not children. Here I go turning into the Incredible Hulk again:

ROOOOOOOOOAR!!! REDNECK SMASH!!!!!!!!!

Kidding. But seriously, it's just proof that no matter what we do, there isn't a damn thing we can do to protect children. Idiots like Yuriyhoy will be around forever. The Republicans just don't seem to see that.

[Batgirl]

My apologies, Clym. I'm a bit obsessive... Okay, very obsessive. But that's truly how I feel about it. And yes, you're right when you say that no Internet access won't stop the pedophiles. But then again, there are children on this board too. Did you see the thread some idiot put in the General Chat? All of those links lead obviously to porn sites. It's idiots like that who should be kicked off the Internet, not children. Here I go turning into the Incredible Hulk again:

ROOOOOOOOOAR!!! REDNECK SMASH!!!!!!!!!

Kidding. But seriously, it's just proof that no matter what we do, there isn't a damn thing we can do to protect children. Idiots like Yuriyhoy will be around forever. The Republicans just don't seem to see that.


Look, I'm a democrat, but wtf is your problem with Republicans? I think its very silly to be like "The Republicans just don't GET the internet" or "Stupid Republicans are just trying to rape us."

I hate the Bush Administration, don't get me wrong, and like I said, I'm a democrat, but its so blind to blame this all on the republicans. There ARE democrats in the House and Senate. Have you looked to see what YOUR Representatives or Senate believe in the matter?

Its not a matter of "oh well predators will be around anyway, so why punish everyone?" Well fuck, guns are going to be around anyway, so why have metal detectors anywhere? Or, hey, why bother giving people driving tickets, people are Still going to speed.

Like I said earlier, the POINT of doing this in schools and libraries is to help PREVENT children from being exposed to places on the internet where Sexual Predators might be looking, specifically, when parents aren't around to watch them.

You just said someone on this site put links to porn. (Which they were punished for very quickly). Thats proving the governments point, community-type websites can't be MADE "safe", there is no prevention that can really take place, only reaction. And Reaction means very little to a 10 year old that just got sexually molested because they didn't know better.

[Steven Mane]

I was raised on the belief that Republicans are evil. That's it. My grandfather once told my uncle that if he or anyone else voted for a Republican at basically any primary, he'd come back and haunt that person the rest of their life. He died in 1977, but his and my still alive grandmother's influence is still felt. My family would technically be considered conservative Democrats, but I have two gay uncles (one who sadly passed away about 11 years ago at the age of 36) and a gay aunt. My family is not what you would call supportive of their choice of lifestyle, but understanding. When I found out, I felt a little awkward, but then I grew to understand. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. Let them do what they want, within reason of course. I grew up around liberal Democrats, including friends, and I even had a Communist teacher in college. Of course, I still believe capitalism makes the world go round, and I just feel that capitalists could do a lot better with the way they treat their workers. Hey, I'm not the only Democrat who dislikes the G.O.P. with a passion.