Israel goes to town in downtown Lebanon

[ClymAngus]

Right I realise that this discussion might be a bit of a powder keg (hell, that region of the world has been a constantly exploding one for the past 50 years at least). And whilst I'm quite amazed at the tactic (logistically) of holding an entire country hostage, I do feel that this most recent conflict has the distinct possiblility of nova-ing into something fairly uncontrollable.

What are your thoughts?

[Chris Nagy]

Israel has a knack for eagerly lighting sparks near very large explosives. It seems to me that their response to any sort of situation is heavy-handed; assassinations that take out a dozen civilians in the process and the like. I suppose they have been conditioned to react harshly since they are surrounded by enemies-- to be a sort of vengeful entity that one does not approach for fear of retribution. Unfortunately, they can only play this role for so long before it, and the Middle East, explodes in their faces; at which point the rest of the world will have to pick up the pieces, if that is even a viable option.

[ClymAngus]

It's a difficult one that's for sure, lots of tit for tat killing going on both sides. I see what you mean, it does have a lot of potential to become something of meat vaccum sucking in country after country. Israel is very well armed, that said I'm unsure how many people they can take on before they loose the numerical advantage. Politically nothing brings out the hard liners like a good old land war, I have my doubts that the Lebanese government will take the strain.

[Tomoe]

OMG, I totally need to
a) start watching the news again
b) stop laying by the pool all day with my iPod on.

I've been missing summer classes AND world issues.
/sigh.

[Tom]

Bush, cursing, on the issue:

"See, the irony is that what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over."

Video, here: http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Today-Bush-G8-un.mov


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By Monday, the French had rescued 800 of their own citizens, 400 other Europeans and 50 Americans, who were evacuated to Cyprus. In contrast, by Monday evening, the United States was STILL DELIBERATING over how to evacuate its citizens and how much money it would cost and had only rescued a grand total of 64.

Original plans included limiting belongings to 30 pound bags and could not take laptops or cameras. In addition, they had to pay a $300 evacuation fee or sign a promissory note, just to get to Cyprus.

Last night, CNN reported that after heavy pressure from congress, the evacuees did not have to pay the evacuation fee.

JEEBUS. We suck.

[McCorvic Sucks]

A bomb is a bomb.

Whether it has super-laser-guided strike capabilities and costs a billion trillion dollars or is worn as a belt - it still kills mindlessly.

What Hizbollah does is terrorism (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13922915/). What Israel does is terrorism (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411366/791417).

Israel is bombing the hell out of Lebanon, even the parts that aren't controlled by Hizbollah. Even the parts that were heavily christian (http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Security&loid=8.0.322578407&par=) and were once supportive of Israel. 293 people have be killed in Lebanon, but only one or two (http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2006/07/16/any-hezbollah-killed/) of those have been Hizbollah members. None the less, I'm sure in a few years Israel will still be scratching her head and asking "Why does everyone hate us :/ ?"

Fortunatly, there are some kinder signs coming out that may signal an end. Maybe in a few weeks (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15067684.htm) along with subtle awknowledgement of an attempt to begin slight diplomatic efforts. (http://washtimes.com/upi/20060718-072008-3853r.htm) Though these efforts may continued to be hampered because one of Israel's demands for peace is that Lebanon do everything it can to dismantle Hizbollah, which has set-up a pseudo-country in Southern Lebanon, but continues to bomb away the Lebanese ability (http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=9332) to do so.

Also, all this saber-rattling towards Syria (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060718/wl_nm/mideast_israel_syria_dc_1) isn't (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060718/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_mideast) making things easier as well.

Oh, and Tom: I hope you find it as funny as I do that Syria, the terrorist evil, is doing more for our own people (http://washtimes.com/upi/20060717-020326-2003r.htm) than Bush and Co.


Thanks Clym, for starting this thread. I wanted to so badly, but people expect/ignore my political rants.

[Gabi Star]

Having both Jewish (not israeli) and Lebanese blood in me, you can understand how torn my family and I are on this subject. My dad, being Jewish, and I seem to be at each other's throats with this battle. He blames Hizbu'llah, iow the here and now, I still blame the United Nations and the creation of the state of Israel for almost all the turmoil surrounding them in the Middle East.

The difference is this- Hizbu'llah doesn't have control of the Lebanese Government (at least not yet. That's what they're attempting to accomplish). They are in complete admiration for the Iranian Revolution and their attacks on Israel...

I don't know if I should continue this post. It doesn't feel right posting an opinion of mine here when I have a personal bias and a bit of hurt in me. I'll edit this later. So ignore the unfinished banter. I was just hoping to bring to enlightenment that people like me are completely torn.

[Tom]

I still blame the United Nations and the creation of the state of Israel for almost all the turmoil surrounding them in the Middle East.

An absolutely valid opinion on such a significant event. But, it's too simple a reason for me to consider it as the absolute point of origin.

Myself, I blame ignorance, free will and, in general, the human condition. I would feel uncomfortable placing all the blame on an isolated event. The evolution into current middle eastern conflicts developed over countless situations that go back centuries.

The dynamics of all the warfare and conflict is, unfortunately, ridiculously complicated. The situation has escalated beyond physical blame.

It really is sad. :(

[ig.]

The only thing that miffs me is the apparent lack of force from the international community. Superpowers ain't acting like superpowers is what it seems.

Other than that, it's old hat. Sort of.

[caejones]

I only started getting into researching the situation between Israel and Palastine in the past couple weeks, so I am hesitant to draw any major conclusions on the matter.

But, what gets me is that Israel tends to go to incredible extremes to make a point--unacceptible, sometimes. Yes, they have a right to defend themselves... but yeesh, everything I hear sounds like it's an all out tantrum.

And yet, I hear a lot of people blindly saying "you think Israel's killing people that don't need to be killed, and this is bad? Blasphemy!".

I don't think there is a good or bad side in a conflict as complicated as what's going on in the middle east. However, the way conditions are out there, it seems more than possible that this could escalate into an all out "arabs Vs Jews" battle (yes, that's a huge generalization on my part.). And there's not a good solution, because anything would only create another tension.

The international community is getting involved, though. Javier Selana (SP?) is making propositions. Everyone else is sitting in their rooms thinking "What should we do? We want to support <name here>, but if we do, the otherside will go terrorist on us..."

If it gets any bigger, I'm confident that someone from the west will get involved. Now, I'm not saying it will become World War III, but it is a distinct possibility.

Dude, that's gotta be the worst thing I've posted on this board so far...