Capitalism vs Communism

[Gabi Star]

The topic came up in the Gay Marriage thread (though I have no idea how) and it seems like we have people here with some very different opinions on how the economy should work.

So which do you prefer?

[McCorvic Sucks]

I move that only economic majors post any further in this thread. For it is the silly. lolz

[Moose]

I move that only economic majors post any further in this thread. For it is the silly. lolz
Well, a two person arguement would be kinda boring. Sooo

Well, I say Capitalism. I like the idea of freedom. I like Americas Capitalism now, it has good economic freedom, while trying to help out the naturally poor, disabled, and overall unable to make a living without some support..

I could go more in detail, but I honestely don't care enough about this subject to write something huge, end up making one mistake, and then having 9 different arguements.

[ClymAngus]

Wow, this is going to get very heated when the big guns get at it. I like the idea of communism. Hell this board is an object lession in what you can achieve with community. That said theory and practice are 2 completely different things. Pure communism is difficult to put into practice.

Capitalism on the other hand, centred on the aspirations of the one, is more atune to the effects of social evolution (people get better at what they do over time due to social enviroment they find themselves in) Problem is capitalism (as I see it) is a fairly monosyllabic system with the attainment of "wealth" at it's core. Depending on what commodity that "wealth" takes every other standard falls by the wayside in the pursuit of it, and is sacrifice-able to it. Unless you've got your priorities just right it's possible to aquire a large ammount of wealth but still selling the human race generally quite short Or finding that your wealth is devalued as the physical or social environment changes due (in no small part) to the pursuit of that wealth.

So, both have their drawbacks. I think it's all in the blending. After over 2000 years of social engineering, there appears to be no magic social and political magic bullet for species success. I'm unsure that any ism is a viable way forward, but we seem happy with capitalism for the moment.

This may change in the future. :)

[Lady Plantagenet]

I am for Capitalism. It works. There is freedom to it.

A community is nice, however, some people (like myself) do not work well in groups. :p We prefer to be independent and not depend on others for our living. We do not like to be told what to believe in or what to do or how to live.

In theory for Communism, sharing your hard work with others is nice and a good thing, however, there will always be those few people who will take advantage of the situation and do nothing. I would definitly refuse to support or hand over what I have worked so hard for in my life to someone who chooses to do nothing.

[Cloud Strife]

I voted for Communism to be different. :)
Also, it really is the best governmental plan... on paper. The only problem is that it has never been executed properly, what with corruption and greed and all that.
Anyway.
I think Capitalism is great, but... I think the US of A is Capitalism gone bad. The most money is in the hands of the few (CEO's, otherwise known as feudal lords) and the vast majority of the population are wage slaves (feudal serfs, lol). Big businesses, almost unfairly in its ease, rub out small businesses.
Corporations like Wal-Mart bully manufacturers into selling at prices that Wal-Mart wants... because if they don't sell to Wal-Mart, there goes like 50% of their market.
I like the idea of capitalism better back in the 50s and 60s, before Franchising and Corporations got really prevalent. And before we had stupid corrupt CEOs that get paid absurd amounts of money while the rest of us get the Shaft.
But that's just me.

[Batgirl]

I am for Capitalism. It works. There is freedom to it.

A community is nice, however, some people (like myself) do not work well in groups. :p We prefer to be independent and not depend on others for our living. We do not like to be told what to believe in or what to do or how to live.

In theory for Communism, sharing your hard work with others is nice and a good thing, however, there will always be those few people who will take advantage of the situation and do nothing. I would definitly refuse to support or hand over what I have worked so hard for in my life to someone who chooses to do nothing.

I Just wanted to say that the philosophy of Communisum does not tell you what to believe, and theoretically it doesn't tell you what to do or how to live either. That's just what often happens when it is put into practical use, one of the many reasons I believe that communism doesn't work under real-world circumstances.

Commusim would work thusly, Lets say we have a community of Farmers. There are 5 farmers. In the ideal, perfect world, where everyone is perfect, Everyone works their hardest, and at the end of the year, one farmer had a very exceptional crop, 2 of the families had an average crop, 1 had a very meager crop, and one lost everything that year, do to some freak misfortune.
In the Ideal of communism, all the families would put their crops in a big pile, and then split it all evenly. After all, they all worked hard, no one should be held accountable as a victim of circumstance.

That is the theory of communism. The reality works more like...

1 Family had a very successful crop, 1 family had an average crop, 1 family had no crop due to a freak misfortune, and 2 families had very small crops because they were lazy about working and figured hell, they're going to get their share of the food anyway. It comes time to put all the food in the center and the Family with the large crop only brings an average-sized crop to the table, because fuck everyone else, why should they have to starve when they worked the hardest? (even if it was only nature that gave them the edge this time around) Everyone splits the food evenly, except people keep squabbling over how much they get to bring home, and it ends up not QUITE evenly, with the people who have the power to get away with getting more food taking more food. In the end, there just wasn't enough food to go around and everyone has to starve out the winter, except those who cheated into getting more than their share.


Now I think we all know the theory of Capitalism so instead, the reality of it, 1 Family has a large crop. The others have average except for the family with the freak accident. The no crop family goes to the other families, begging for some food to keep them alive for the winter. The families offer to SELL some of their extra food at a very high cost. The no crop family can't afford that because they were nearly bankrupt from all the money they lost on this harvest. The family with the largest crop offers to give the no crop family enough food to last the winter, as long as next year they work on making large-crop family's crop even LARGER. No-crop family, having to choose between working as pretty much slaves to large-crop family, or dying this winter, chooses to become a sort of indentured servant. When next year rolls around, the no crops have to spend so much time helping the rich family, they can barely till their own fields, and so they get stuck in this life of serfdom until their deaths.


It SOUNDS more depressing than communism, but at least in the practice of Capitalism, NOT everyone starves. Everyone survives, it just sucks, a lot, like someone said earlier, the USA is the perfect example of Capitalism gone bad. I think really its a hybrid that works best, like Canada. There are a lot of things the US could do to improve things and re-form the middle class, but no politicians really care right now. They're too worried about Flag Burning, and bitching about Gay marriage, and net neutrality...things that REALLY the government doesn't need to get involved in.

Edit: And McCorvic, I love you. Have my babies or something.

[Batgirl]

However... dream world for me: Agrarianism

I spent a number of years of my life on the farm. I loved having that life, where there was always something to do, and when there was nothing to do, there was still something it just meant you didn't want to do it. You made a decent living selling eggs, meat, or veggies you grew, or hay bails to all the other farmers, and you knew it was fresh too. You only had you, your family, and a couple hundred acres of land to worry about... You didn't need to worry about your neighbour, but if they wanted a cup of sugar, it was no problem. It seemed like "nothing really mattered" and it was good. :(

Now there's a theory that'd be interesting. People would be healthier, life would be simpler, might be nice.

But I dunno it seems to be people's way to not want to be independant like that, seems like even in the earliest civilizations there were lazy people, who wanted to have people do the work for them.

I don't know if I personally would be happy in an Agrarian Society, if only because my hearts lie so much in the arts and entertainment, and that sort of lifestyle doesn't leave much time for things like that, hell with my life the way it is now I barely find the time. ><